so basically we going to get all Ellie and Pain backstory now with no stop. well at least ...

So you think Ellie was part of this kidnapping thing? Or do you know that

Uh, oh, yes, so nice that Pain 'gave Ellie freedom' when he and his kind are the ones that took it from the human Arts in the first place.

Being kind is a crime, now? Then Pain also committed a crime. And while Ellie was with other people, he was not fucking them, yet Pain was. And somehow being with other people is ALSO a crime yet with Pain it's not, even though he's *also fucking* them?

Sounds pretty much like hypocrisy to me.

And did you actually read the manga or just find what you could that would bolster your victim blaming? See I believe it was mentioned that Ellie's previous master disposed of him. Perhaps the reason the previous master disposed of him had something to do with the reason why he is searching for a way to get around the pheromones? And Humpty Dumpty wasn't all that good of a person, either. You DO know that the 'dregs' he was talking about were human beings... right? And, of course, looking for a way to protect other humans is never a good thing... is it?

Oops?

wow buddy calm down. well first, I never said this society is good did I? there is l hate and discrimination and people that support those crap in this comic.

but again, Pain wasn't prefect. he live in "this" society, he was tutor in "this" society just like Shell was. the one question is how he use it in his life? and for his credit, he was much more nicer to Ellie when he could just rape him, torture him (like he was tutor he should do) and tie him up. I don't see why he won't do that if he was allowed to and it "seem" like it give him honor or some shit like that in other vampire's eyes. but he choose not to do that. he hesitate to touch him, what I found very interesting. and they did have some kind of bound, DENY IT all you want! but this society is cruel to both of them.

I didn't say kindness is bad, I said if you going to try and save someone while promise things you can't keep and be kind to him and make him love you, only to go with other people (his girlfriend) then he should not do that from the first place! just don't! cause it way worse!!!

I was thinking how to answer the second paragraph, but I mostly talk about Ellie girlfriend and how it seem in their society. while you can ignore it, I think it only fair he should have been honest with Pain, if he didn't love him. while Pain, do you think he care much about who he sleep with? really? XD he just doing what he "should" do in "this" kind of society. which is make children with women he don't give a crap about, what is really sad in my eyes!! but hi, it just me XD

I said Ellie seem to me like an hypocrite cause he said he will stay and support someone, while he didn't do that in the end. it felt like an empty promises in the end! wow is playing house really mean he was with him?? okay whatever. if he was going to act kind, at last he should follow his own promises and stay with him until the end!!! but what is done is done, it is their past and I still think Humpty Dumpty become a very bad and dangerous person.

all the humans in this society are victims, I never said they wasn't. but Ellie seem to act and promise things he will never really Fulfill. or that how it seem to me. then again Pain never told him how he felt either, but it was kind of obvious by now. and I think Ellie already know about it too. also, this society see it has a betrayal from Ellie part to be with other vampire then his master. not say they right, but at least he should try to hide it better XD or run away from the start with her.

I never said Humpty Dumpty was good, but it was better if someone won't give him "hope" that he stay with him forever while wanting to run with someone else that he love. he promise that he will stay with him, and yeas he took it in the full meaning only to crash it latter and be with his girlfriend and make a child. I don't say don't be with the women you love, but at lest don't Pretend you be with someone you don't care enough or even want a romantic thing with while Ellie never wanted anything romantic with him! that way worse!!! and again, he did try to commit suicide so...his mind will take it very badly. again, Humpty Dumpty took a big risk to help Ellie, and even if it a crime to use them, he will do it cause he was so much in love with him. it just show how much he love Ellie and how much he accept the rules of that society. so he wasn't such a bad horrible guy at first. and I don't think Ellie cared that much he use humans either soo....yap XD

the different in our Opinions is that I don't think Ellie come from the point of view "I protect only the humans cause vampire's are bad" nor "I protect the humans from the vampire". Ellie all his life was trying to accept not only the human race but also the vampire race. and see them has "okay, both of them born Innocent and pure" what I found much more interesting then to pick one side and said the other is the bad one. but again, in the end he promise things he can't keep! and do things that thought will "help" but in their reality only hurt them. so...but then again Ellie was very young so to be a little selfish is not a bad thing.

I didn't say Pain was good but at last he try too from all this crap society. and Shell, well, Shell is just Shell XD I don't know if Ellie cared about him, cause it said Ellie left him!! it a fact! so...I just don't know ╮(￣▽￣)╭

the kidnapping of humpty? or the kidnapping of Eric??
if you talking about the kidnapping of Humpty Dumpty, no I don't think so. Ellie was too busy with his girlfriend ╮(￣▽￣)╭

k