I Wish this Wasn't BL

Would the story had been any different of it wasn't bl? even if it was FxF or MxF nothing would have changed except the the gender of white hair dudes obsession

or is it the fact that it's marked as BL meaning there's romance between the two, if that's so that I understand. However from what I see the author doesn't portray it as romance. This is the same author who made incidentally living together so I know for a fact they know how to portray romance so i can say as a facf this is not ment to be perceived as romance.

It's ment to portray domestic abuse, obsession, torture all in the of love which seeing your response does very well. you pointed out that the two mc relationship lacks chemistry that alone should tell you that relationship is never ment to be viewed as romantic

I agree. And I think all that rape and abuse made Cho-ah the way he is. The author made a good job of portraying a person suffering from trauma, physical and mental. Do you think a person will be strong-willed after all that? I don't know why we tend to nitpick on mentally broken down characters, it's like victim-blaming in 2D. When I read this, I felt Cho-ah's fear and horror whenever he realizes what the ML is capable of (and who he is). And the rape scenes isn't there to make us feel love & lust (at least, the way I see it)... I think we're meant to feel discomfort and terrified, since biological responses to sexual stimulation doesn't stop just because we don't want it. I wish we've got control over all of our nerve endings, but no. So the horror and psychological tag is apt in this case. Especially whenever Cho-ah mentions or thinks that Mujin is his lover when that's definitely not the case when he's fleeing from him that he fell of a cliff and lost his memory. Like, if that's not conditioning or brainwashing, what else could that be? And all that sex to reinforce the thought that you really are your captor's lover? (your brain definitely flooded with all that dopamine, endorphins and oxytocin)

Definitely not meant to be perceived as romance whenever the ML is a psychopath, I think. But I understand the frustration with Cho-ah's character, because it seemed like he doesn't grow. Like, I want to root for him so badly and escape this cycle of terror. And you can see that he does want to escape his situation but he's held back by something like Stockholm syndrome (since he's relied heavily on ML for survival), more than a saviour complex. And we all know that it's not easy to escape your abuser, such is the case in modern real life too... What more in this medieval-fantasy setting that he's in? Ah, I feel really bad for everything that's happened to Cho-ah. He's not meant to be a well-rounded character, and he can't grow until the end since he's trapped.

I think the author did great in portraying abuser-victim dynamic. Even at the end, where Mujin succeeded in becoming King and locking up the object of his obsession. There's no balance in power to begin with, and Mujin is packaged in a way most charismatic abusers are. I think the way he's illustrated as this rich and complex character is definitely well done, too. HE'S A PRETTY TRAP. And Cho-ah is unfortunate.

When I say I wished this wasn't BL, I mean I wished this wasn't BL in how much the forced smut took so much of the story progress it annoyed me to the point where I ask, "How many chapters should I skip so I can just get to the plot?" I wished this didn't have any sense of "romance" at all and just had the Serious Plot. Or in my opinion, just had MC and ML as two different sides of the coin or ML being a villain character who covets the MC because the MC embodies someone he wants to be.

Honestly, the "romance" repulsed me so much I wished any semblance of it was gone. That's what I mean when I said I wished it wasn't BL. I wished it was just a "Plot-Manwha" because the Serious Plot is so intruiging and the "Romance" Plot got in the way of the manwha. It's like how I wished Twilight focused on the side characters' stories instead of Bella's, you get me?

I agree the rape scenes aren't there to arouse us but honestly, I wish it was done in a way that shows this to us. Sure, we can see how Cho-A reacted to it but I can't get the sense that the author wanted us to react in that way. Like I said, the way the author made Cho-A react after the Prince's rape is so... nonchalant? It rubbed me off the wrong way so much. You can argue the author meant it as Cho-A so shocked he can't react properly but it really didn't feel like it.

And I disagree with Cho-A being meant as a well-rounded character because if he wasn't... why is he the main character? Because he's the object of ML's obsession? If the main character is unlikeable, to the point where we want to give up on them, why are we supposed to root for him? Maybe I just prefer main characters with a backbone but the way Cho-A acts is... in my opinion I wished the author handled it better. Not even in like "Make him a bad ass way" but more like, more realistic, more humane, more anger. And at the very least, smarter. Give him grit as much as he had kindness. Make him harder as he get entangled with Mujin so his arc doesn't fall behind the Serious Plot. Because the way he developed (or his lack thereof) didn't spark the empathy I'm supposed to have, instead it was frustration and the eventual desire to drop the manwha altogether.

If I'm being honest, it's the overdone "weak bottom" and "strong top" that made the power dynamics overdone and made their whole plotline so weak in the face of the subplots.

The rape scenes were so overdone it didn't feel like it was supposed to be what you said it was supposed to serve. There are more tactful ways to do it, more direct ways to present it, and this manwha did not do that. Maybe I'm numb to it all but at the point where I go "What is the purpose of these scenes in the overall plot" I'm pretty sure it's not purposeful anymore.

Like, the plotline between Cho-A and Mujin pales so much to the political tension plot and Mujin's personal plot. You can see this as you've said, that Mujin is packaged as a charismatic psychopath. He's so developed, even the prince had more character development and depth than Cho-A, the main character mind you. I just wished Cho-A had a more personal depth to him that was actually explored.

I respect your opinion but in my opinion, main characters, even if they meet bad endings, should be at least likeable to a degree when we reach the ending. Unfortunately, maybe it's my personal preferences, Cho-A as a main character failed on this part with how his character was handled.

I agree with everything you're saying like all you're comments responding to me, however, about your last comment I feel like Cho-A towards the end not having any growth is his character is a symbolic choice and I'm not talking about no character growth at all because he did have a bit character growth towards the beginning and middle there however once we draw near to the ending all that stopped.

So why I think it's as symbolic choice rather than terrible writing is because, well one it doesn't take place in modern times where we have help lines in extreme cases like these. Like if the Mujin had done the same thing in modern times the cops would have been on his ass. Like I'm talking manhunt, fbi, swat, etc because he would be marked as a serial killed who needs to be detainee immediately with the appropriate technology and tools to do so. And along side the help line there'd be physiologists, therapists, helping Cho-A recover from that and get back on his feet once again. with all that alone Cho-A would have been able to escape the clutches and moved on from his life. Unfortunately this doesn't take place in modern times leaving Cho-A forever trapped in this situation while his mental health takes a serious toll. Even if he had escaped it'd be useless because Mujin would bring him back and chain him up and torture him time and time again.


It really shows just what torture can do to you because yea it stops the peaceful challenges of your daily life that enables a character to grow. Not all cases like these get their happy endings and it's shown with this manhwa. Cho-A who so innocently and naively believed everyone no matter what past or person they are deserves to be treated with kindness and look where that belif ended him up..

and while I'm not sure what your definition of character growth is, the story isn't over and maybe just maybe we'll see a bit although its not likely in this case

Oh, I said Cho-ah is "not meant to be a well-rounded" character. He doesn't have to be. He's the titular lover a.k.a the object of the seme's obssession. He wasn't even treated humanely in the story. And wasn't able to grow because of Mujin, we can see this tangible confinement in the end.

And honestly, for me, a main character doesn't have to be a certain way. Like in the real world, where we are the center of our little slices of the perceived universe, I only have to emphathize with the character. And he's the main character precisely because we get to observe his journey more closely.

I agree that Cho-ah feels a bit disconnected and lacking in terms of character growth, but it was clearly shown in the beginning that he has so much potential. But after meeting Mujin, he's become a shell of who he was. And his role shifted to just being the object of the seme's obsession. So in a way (for me) it's a reflection of how someone's potential can be wasted because of unfortunate turn of events. As for his "nonchalant" reaction to the prince's rape, I took it as Cho-ah being numb to everything. But I understand that it's hard to root for a main character with a defeatist attitude, and as I've said... I wanted to root for him so badly but I don't think it's easy to escape his situation (Mujin will still find him even if he does escape tho). I respect your opinion, too. It's nice to have discussions like this ٩(๑❛ᴗ❛๑)۶

And I agree that the rape scenes were over done. I don't know if maybe BL authors think that they get more readers that way? It's just my guess as it's an obvious trend. Ah, I had this thought that maybe Cho-ah has become addicted to sex, too, since there were too many smut and rape scenes. So I just scroll past the cringe-y, terrifying moments! I don't know if it's just me, but losing control over your body is definitely one of the worst things that can happen to a person. And maybe I emphathize with Cho-ah too much because I know many people like him ╥﹏╥

I agree with you on this one, well said!!!

I agree. You've added everything else I wanted to say

Also, for me, Cho-ah as a character that is the "object of obsession" of the powerful Sura is portrayed very good. You saw how he became a shell of what he once was (or what he could've been as a talented physician, in this setting). The author did great in conveying the feeling of futility of escape as well as how life can take a turn for the worst with just trusting the wrong person.

I really liked this discussion as well (ノ≧∇≦)ノ you had some great insights and your ability to read characters and hidden details in this story is amazing. every since the blue curtain Tumblr post it's been so hard to have proper discussion with people online over stories like these. It's like they've never taken the basic 8th grade rhetoric English class which is important for deep media literacy understanding. It still baffles me how people see killing stalking or these types of stories as a romance where psychopaths, torture, rape, and abuse are "hot" I genuinely have deep concerns for those types of people

btw have you tried 'Hwang Young's Misery'? it's currently my favorite my favorite manhwa in sense if it's portrayal of Stockholm Syndrome I've been wanting to rant to someone about that (づ￣ ³￣)づ

I honestly can't even say I respect your opinion cause I 10000000% agree with everything that was discussed. I just love analysis discussions like these where were on the same page, no arguing, and just discussing symbolic moves, choices of persuasion, and analyzing the authors choices. if I could I'd kiss you in a platonic way cause you're the type of friend I wanna read bl with

Right?! This discussion is really nice ٩(๑❛ᴗ❛๑)۶. And it's good to know that some of us still practice reading comprehension. I was wondering about that, too, especially those who just shuts you down when you "complain" about characters, when it's supposed to be natural to question things (as OP said, it's 'thought provoking'). Some assume that everyone reads just for the smut, it's insane.

And also, how can you ship the victim with their abuser? I really want to ask them if they're okay. If they say that it's fine since it's just a story, then it makes me wonder... are they the kind of people that don't care unless it happens to them (or to someone close to them)? Is it because they lack empathy? I mean, shouldn't we all know (as readers)that the literature (or whatever multimedia art/text) that exists in a given time period is a reflection of its society? And so I believe that all art and literature can be subjected to criticism, interpretation and analysis ┗( T﹏T )┛

Yes, it's in my reading list!! Definitely a good portrayal of Stockholm Syndrome. I think it's been more than a month since the last update（/TДT)/

I want to be friends, too! ヾ(❀╹◡╹)ﾉ~

You've raised really great points, too! And I usually just lurk around the comments section, but when I saw how you expressed your opinion in a calm, collected manner... It made me want to share mine ヾ(☆▽☆)

and to the OP @janchai (Idk how to tag you, is it possible?) who started this topic, thank you for opening the floor! I respect your opinions, truly. You've raised valid points, too! When you said that the ship in this story is illogical, it made me think that author has effectively communicated that this is not a love story as it isn't supposed to be. The romance aspect felt forced because it is, by the oppressive seme. And maybe because I don't ship the main characters at all that I didn't think that the lack of chemistry is a plot hole.

Ok, this might be a dumb question but what does "cont." mean?

Cont. Is an abbreviation for continued.

Ahh, now I get that part, thanks!

(＾▽＾)

I agree with Cho-A being helpless to Mujin, after all he is human in the face of a psychopathic Sura. I just think it would have been more impactful if he had more of a character growth or defiance against Mujin. I know that this is a grim story-ending but I think there should have been even a little bit of positive change to at least round up his character. Doesn't matter if he regresses, just a little bit.

Imagine a hateful Cho-A, a Cho-A who once again takes up a knife and plunges it at anyone who tries to take advantage of him, who uses his life as a threat against Mujin's overtaking. How would Mujin react, how would Cho-A, a doctor who is supposed to save lives, view life when he ultimately despises it? It would be a sharp contrast to the Serious Plot, and in my opinion, would once again tilt the balance of the "Romance" plot with the Serious Plot. Ah, that really sounds the most exciting!!

And it's just a personal preference, but when I read dark manwhas like these it hits more in the ending when, after the main character grows and sharpens, they are ultimately beaten back to where they started, hopeless and resigned to their fate lol. If the author is going the dark route, they might as well go all the way out ლ(´ڡ`ლ)