NO just NO

I think you're seriously missing the point, and I have to wonder if it's deliberate because you're getting all excited about people misunderstanding the situation with Haru and Ren yet not even ONCE thinking that maybe YOU are the ones misunderstanding something, here? If it's not deliberate, it seriously makes you look IGNORANT and hypocritical. We're not angry that Haru thinks these things, we're angry that HE is also being a hypocrite about it. Seriously, go back and reread what we actually said. If you still can't understand it, here's an explanation for ya, mmkay? As Rena below said, HE'S the one who treats Ren as a high schooler, then fellates him (although they did put it more crudely), then won't go any further with Ren because he doesn't think he's 'mature' enough (to Haru: then why suck him off in the first place ya DICK?), THEN turns around and blames him for the disappearance of his parents? WHO is the immature one, now? It sure ain't Ren, sweetcheeks. If Haru would stop acting like big brother knows best when he OBVIOUSLY doesn't and put other people on the wrong foot I WOULD HAVE NO FUCKING PROBLEM with him (after all, he's acting exactly like his biological mother whom I ABSOLUTELY LOATHE). And, no, Ren has never blamed Haru for anything. To put it simply: I can totally see why Haru never actually got over his parents' deaths BUT it doesn't mean you have to be a hypocritical JERK about it. If that STILL doesn't get you to see our point, then I have to say you just fell for the old victim blaming trope, which is so sad to see.

When did Haru "blame him for the disappearance of his parents"? I did'nt see it like that.
I didn't see a scene in which he told something to Ren... Maybe I missed it.

Just putting this out here, but you guys do know this is fiction right? It's a fake story you don't have to get all huffy...(〜￣△￣)〜

*get's all huffy about being told not to get huffy*

*puffs all up while getting huffy*

*fails to keep a straight face*

lol

i agree with skyflyer05 a bit. they may do sexual things like the hand job and blow jobs. and he's put his finger in twice, both times he couldn't really handle it. yet he asked haru to have sex with him. but then repeats not handling it when he tries. when haru said he was a kid, he assumed that meant go sleep with this guy and that will make me an adult haru will have sex with. mentally, that makes him a kid. so yes, haru feels guilty for that one. and they can fool around all they want and still say no to sex. he doesn't have to say yes. you are immature if you believe that a blow job has to lead to sex. and he's not "acting like", he is his big brother. by papers in a court, he is his brother. so yes, he gets conflicted between the two because ren is still in fact a child. he is not eighteen or older, thus he isn't even a legal adult. maybe in fact you are being the ignorant one sachiko.

Well, considering that that's what the whole topic under discussion is about...? I mean, if no one actually thinks that, I have to say that I believe everyone has vastly misinterpreted the end of the last chapter if they don't think that Haru wondering if his parents would be here if he had never met Ren/Ren had never been around isn't at least indirectly blaming Ren?

I do give Kudos to you, Anonymous, however, for not devolving into victim blaming and actually asking a relevant question unlike some of the other posters on here.

*Sigh* How many times have I heard this exact comment coming out of someone's mouth with little to no forethought or foresight put into it? (Sidenote, I'm not getting huffy, here, and, no, just because this post is several times longer than the actual post I'm responding to, it does not mean that changes anything. Like I've said, I've heard it often, already, and at some point someone is going to feel they have to say something about it, after all. Might as well be me, this time).

I mean, we're not little children, here. Assuming that people are getting huffy simply because they can't distinguish between reality and fiction is rather simplistic and just ends up being condescending, rather than the miraculous insight that no one else has ever thought of, before, that the poster usually thinks it is.

Even if this was directed at both me and the OP, I take umbrage at it being used in both of our cases, not just mine. You see, this is not just about reality vs fiction. It's about having different opinions and communicating them effectively. I don't think the first poster actually read what the rest of the posters were saying and assuming they were right while everyone else was oh-so-wrong because of their own misinterpretation is insulting and has nothing to do with whether something is reality vs whether something is fiction.

As for this being fiction as opposed to reality, wtf cares? Unless you're going to say all of us are fictional readers or that the writer is also fictional, these stories, whether you like it or not, do intersect with and arise from reality. And I have long said that those who accuse other people of not being able to distinguish fiction from reality are the very ones who seem unable to do so. I don't know if it applies in your case, but the fact of the matter is that the majority of people who say that are applying the same standards they apply in reality to fiction, which DEFINITELY includes the next poster I'm going to respond to.

So, if he couldn't handle it, why didn't Haru stop? The onus is on the person doing the action to stop, not the other way around. Anything else is just victim blaming. It's also very immature to expect the younger person to say no while the older one who is supposed to be more mature sets no such expectations for himself. It's even MORE immature for that same older person to expect that same younger person to do those things when they, themselves, have CLEARLY assumed the opposite position, that it IS somehow all of a sudden immature for the YOUNGER person to be making the decisions, when it comes to the big brother vs younger brother/adult vs high schooler role. But, thank you for proving my point so... effectively.

I never said a blow job had to lead to sex. WTF did I say that? Please do show me. Or are you doing the same thing as skyflyer and totally misinterpreting what everyone else is saying?

And what does it change about my point saying that Haru is legally Ren's brother? Absolutely nothing. The hypocrisy in switching from one position to the other when he changes roles is purely what I was talking about, after all. Thanks.

quoting you, you said "then won't go any further with Ren because he doesn't think he's 'mature' enough (to Haru: then why suck him off in the first place ya DICK?)". that does sound like you are saying he had to go farther just because of a blowjob. maybe i misinterpreted it, but that's how it came across.
i dislike everyone playing Ren as the victim purely because he is younger. when he first showed up he said it was because he loved haru, but from what they show over time is that he doesn't 100% understand real love. he didn't even have sexual urges of any kind until they moved back from canada and in with all the brothers. then was so eager all the time to do things with haru, but gets mad when haru tells him no or to wait. then everyone proceeds to blast haru for rejecting him. he didn't carry a phone and answer right away, thinking this made him grown up. haru was not being clinging, its normal to tell people who live with you where you are and that you are okay.
this whole story is from ren's point of view most the time, but no one wants to step into haru's shoes. it should frustrate you that he goes between older brother and lover because truthfully he is both, it's normal to struggle with that. and at rens age, to fall between wanting to do things, then feeling guilty because of how innocent he is, is also normal for him. haru has never been committed until ren either so he has struggles with falling for his half brother and really being in love. he also has the accident of his parents death haunting them, which for all we know is the root of his struggle. we can only guess what he was told by his parents about ren. Haru feels more filial duty to them than Ren would. we've physically seen him drown in his guilt for that accident, and it probably affects a lot.

Agree with you there. Its very hard to understand what Haru is going through unless we see it from his point of view. Also, Haru was the one who taught Ren everything right? Like, wearing shoes when going outside, taking a bath, sleeping on a bed and eating meals properly to say thank you or sorry etc... Haru in a way is Ren Gaurdian while also being his lover~ A very complicated relationship. By the way is the topic about Haru being blamed? Or is it something else? (⊙…⊙ )

i agree, and yes how you worded it was my point.

Definitely, a complicated relationship in fact love itself is complicated and yet also simple.

I am not playing Ren as the victim. That's something else you misinterpreted. I absolutely believe Ren is responsible for dismissing Haru's problems when they first met and for implicitly taking Haruko's side against Haru.

I think the problem is you are generalizing everything I am saying and applying them to things they were never intended to be applied to. Because, unfortunately and quite frankly, you don't seem to realize you're proving my point, either.

First off: That phrase you quoted from me was specifically applying to Haru's HYPOCRISY. I believe I already mentioned that in my original post. And that I said it in the same paragraph as that phrase...? And, so, if you really analyze that point you'll see that what I'm complaining about obviously had nothing do with how I thought sex should 'obviously' come after a blowjob. No, my PROBLEM is that Haru IS saying that Ren is 'mature' enough to be given a blowjob but not 'mature' enough to have full on sex. Then he turns around, implying that Ren shouldn't be blurring the lines between a blowjob and sex, without ever wondering if, maybe, he's a big part of the reason why Ren obviously does. Basically, everyone, including Haru, is giving HARU a pass while denouncing Ren for doing the exact same thing. To give you an example from your own comment: "it should frustrate you that he goes between older brother and lover because truthfully he is both, it's normal to struggle with that." And, thus, my STATEMENT that for someone who is much YOUNGER than Haru it is normal for them to be confused about the boundaries between a blowjob and sex, especially when the person who is MUCH OLDER than you and SHOULD know that better than you, not only doesn't seem to care (because, no, I don't see Haru ever feeling guilty over his feelings for or what he's doing to Ren. If you're talking about what I think you're talking about, Haru's guilt is either always directed at some OTHER, more minor, thing or he's MADE to feel guilty about it only because he tends to internalize everything other people he cares about say to him. I know he's only made to feel that way because that so-called guilt never seems to last) but actually CONTRIBUTES to it.

Secondly: I absolutely disagree with ANYONE who says 'Haru should just get over his parents death already'. I just don't believe he should bring Ren into it when he's the one who refuses to talk about it with him. Because he oh-so-subtly victim blames Ren for it by doing so. After all, everyone, again including Haru, believes REN is the childish one when he doesn't talk to Haru about important things even though they also believe Haru should be given a pass for doing so? And then when he does talk to him about certain things Ren's still blasted for being childish yet the same trait is still never attributed to Haru for any reason?

And that's where the 'being younger' argument comes in. If someone much older is given a pass for such things it only makes sense to give the younger one a much BIGGER pass, for similar 'indiscretions', rather than blaming the younger one for something the older always gets a pass on. Otherwise it smacks of HYPOCRISY (just as I was saying it did, earlier), dontcha think?

I was never blasting Haru for rejecting Ren, either. And I don't understand why you would think that.

Thanks.

i want to reply to this properly,but i'm sick and my meds are making it impossible to focus on it. i get what you are saying, i already said i may have misinterpreted what you said. for that, i'm sorry. i even didn't accuse you, i just simply said that's what i read it as. but that if you didn't mean it, then i took back a good chunk of what i said. you make valid points, i wasn't trying to make it all about haru anymore than you were making it about ren, we both seem to be wanting both of their sides to be seen. i can appreciate that. :) i do disagree with his treatment towards Ren when he creates the conflict himself. i think both of them need to just express everything and meet at a middle ground and get off each of their "i need to do this for the relationship to work", and move on to "WE need to do this for the relationship to work". is it just me? or do you see that too? (as much as we seem to appear arguing, and maybe it's just me but i'm having a fun discussion with you Sachiko. i love when a work can bring this much passion out of it's readers in our want to connect with a and understand the characters)

Yeah, I was getting tired of that too. I'm quite glad of you pointing it out. Everybody gives a pass at Haru for doing the immature things but then it somehow becomes everybody's problem if Ren does it.

Basically, Haru was quite annoying in the manga. Baseline is: He's older, he has no excuse. I find it more appalling that people can actually find anything wrong with Ren being wishy washy about sex since he's obviously younger and has zero experience. Therefore the person to set him straight is obviously the adult aka Haru which somehow everybody seemingly forgets just because Haru is Haru and somehow his handsomeness should forgive him for everything.