Guys Hall Enjoyer obviously is trolling. They only point out others as trolling because they know it'll get a reaction. As for them being autistic, they might be, but their remarks are still abelist. They're probably suffering from a lack of attention and reaction elsewhere and is projecting on a yoai smut discussion thread. Anyways I'll maybe try to reroute this back to an eloquent (or well written for the Hall Enjoyers out there) discussion.
Even if it is repetitive how is buff bottoms as a trope more harmful than other tropes in yoai? Mafia stories are wildly incorrect and use the same manipulation and deception as the buff bottom stories do. Omegaverses literally base their whole premise on how scary it is to be an omega, get assaulted and then fall for the guy that was an ass to you due to pheromones out of your control. There's so many issues as far as these basically cornerstones of yoai that aren't exclusive to the buff bottom stories that it's actually redundant to say it's a matter of reader preference. I was in another comment section where no one could tell who the top or bottom was because the story wasn't a smut and there weren't any explicit smut scenes to tell. They were all at each other's throats due to assumptions and the fact it was a non cannon side story. The bottom couldn't have been the taller one because he's more level headed and written with more characteristics relating more to a top, the shorter one can't be assumed bottom because he's shorter, he's older in the relationship and in a previous one wasn't the assumed bottom. Now, I'm what I like to call a position anarchist (or the nicer word for it is switch) and assume that either of a couple in a yoai is equally able to be bottom or top. I understand why bottoms are more petite in some stories, and I understand why some are buff in others. All yoai is most of the time is an artist's preferences laid out in a story, yoai is simply the gay versions of all those romance books with tall dark and handsome with a terrible personality, but a big dick and knowledge how to use it. I'm not saying it's good. Similarly to how you feel about the buff bottom market, despite it's over saturation it still gets read by many many people. There's a different side of people that like to see love trump manipulation, blackmail and sometimes straight up assault. There's similarly a different side that likes to see the tables reversed, the big dude "taking punches" per say. Consider that most translations teams that I know of, pick up projects based on either personal preference or audience preference. So far they've seemed to match for a period of time and the trend of buff bottoms as become popular. It will fall out of popularity as trends tend to so often do, but this sudden saturation in this particular trope isn't bad, well not for the reasons I've seen listed since those are also in other stories without buff bottoms. Mind you most buff bottom stories don't have a small top, the top is equally as buff or large sometimes larger. Complete role reversals I don't see often, even if I have been around the block in a wide variety of stories. I don't think the buff bottom trend is as serious as role reversals and is as simple as "I want to see someone who looks like a top take it up the ass". Just food for thought at this point because this discussion as taken more of my brainpower than I'd willingly allot.
Ok, I just want to get this out of the way and I fucking can't even believe I have to say this: I'm not autistic. How can I even be labeled as autistic just for expressing my nuanced opinions and observations on a niche genre on a manga reading site? It's so irrational and baseless to even think about it. Plus, usually, the ones who use autism as an insult or a baseless label are usually the ones who lack understanding or empathy themselves (you know, like people who actually have autism
You raise some compelling points, TheTransBiHimself, especially regarding the diverse tropes within yaoi and how they mirror or diverge from other genres. However, I think it's important to distinguish between the prevalence of a trope and its impact on the narrative and audience. While it's true that many genres, including yaoi, thrive on certain repeated themes like mafia stories or omegaverse dynamics, each trope contributes uniquely to the genre's landscape. The buff bottom trope, as you've pointed out, might not be inherently more harmful than others, but its oversaturation does pose a risk of homogenizing character development and relationship dynamics in yaoi.
Regarding the role reversals and the dynamics of tops and bottoms in yaoi, while it's refreshing to see a variety of physical and personality traits in characters, the issue I'm addressing is more about the repetitive nature of these portrayals rather than their existence. Yes, yaoi, like any other artistic expression, is a reflection of the creators' preferences and fantasies. However, when a particular trope like small top and "bitch" buff bottom pairing becomes overly dominant, it can limit the scope of stories being told and potentially alienate readers looking for different narratives.
Your point about translation teams choosing projects based on personal or audience preference is well-taken. It's a natural process in any creative field. But when these choices consistently lean towards a particular trope, it leads to a skewed representation in the available literature. This isn't about invalidating the buff bottom trope but advocating for a more balanced representation that includes a wider range of stories and character dynamics, not just stories with shit plots that are only noticeable for smut and have small top x buff bottom pairings.
Lastly, regarding your point about the buff bottom trend and its popularity, trends indeed fluctuate. I'm not even against this trope. I love stories that have a buff seme and buff uke pairing whether the seme/uke is portrayed as manly, pretty, or effeminate through their personality or physical appearance. But it's crucial for a genre as rich and diverse as yaoi to continually evolve and include varied narratives, not just for the sake of variety but also for the richness it brings to the genre. It's not just about seeing someone who looks like a top taking it up the ass, but about exploring the full spectrum of human relationships and experiences in a way that resonates with a broader audience. This inclusivity and diversity in storytelling is what will keep the genre vibrant and engaging for all readers.
That's what I have to say. Thank you for your comment and insights.
Still autisming I see! Proud of u :3
Wait hold up, did u just "no u" the autism accusations?? Lmfao?!?!!
Hell yeah, I 'no u'd' it! And you're not denying it either so....
Thank you. I've learned to deal with your apparent diagnosis. I might as well break the spectrum
I mean I did say I was reclaiming previously, right?
But you told KittyKat that you were "being sarcastic, genius" . Usually, people with autism don't use their condition as a flip-flop excuse, especially in places like an anonymous message board, because autistic people have a thing called "consistency". Do you even have it, or is autism just your go-to for being a dipshit just because you saw paragraphs?
Well then I must not be autistic right? Due to the lack of the thing called "consistency" which apparently all autistic people constantly have. And nah I just call ppl autistic when they display blatant autism behaviors such as writing and publicly posting in depth analytical essays abt gay porn cartoons.
Dipshit, this site includes gay porn cartoons and this story's comment section is a section for a genre which is full of gay porn cartoons
Your logic is like a leaky sieve – nothing holds up. Claiming you're not autistic because you lack "consistency" is like saying you're a fish because you drank water. And using autism as an insult is not just dipshit behavior, it's scraping the bottom of the barrel of ignorance. Maybe try elevating your game beyond kindergarten insults, or is that too "consistent" for you who thinks too many words critiquing gay porn cartoons are the benchmark for autism?
Yes but normal people don't write essays analyzing the dynamics of the gay porn cartoon characters and dictating what sexual roles they should or should not fill based on their body type lol. That is something only the deeply mentally unwell spend their time doing. When you find yourself writing essays about gay porn cartoon characters, that's the perfect time to stop in your tracks, look around you and declare to yourself "bro I need a fucking hobby or something"
And normal people don't use autism as a lazy go-to insult material on a comment you're too fucking lazy to read. Are you seriously explaining to me what normal is when you're posting this on a manga reading site, in the comments section of a story in the yaoi/smut genre, which is, you know, full of gay porn cartoon characters?. Have you ever read comments to the stories on this site? So fuck off with your explanation about what's normal and what's not. Normal is a setting on a washing machine, not a standard for human interests. Analyzing and critiquing art, even if it's gay porn cartoons, is a legit hobby. That's why sites like Mangago exist. It's way more enriching than trolling online forums because of the large amounts of words in comments. People analyze Shakespeare and Picasso, so somewhow manga and mahnwa's are not allowed? It's called having diverse interests. Your narrow, troglodyte view that such analysis is reserved for the "deeply mentally unwell" just shows your ignorance and lack of cultural depth. Maybe broaden your horizons before trashing others for having a brain and using it. Or is that concept too "mentally well" for you?
No way did you just say "normal is a setting on a washing machine" to me in the year of our lord 2024
Yes my child . Lord has standards. Lord accepts only functioning washing machines
Yes my child . Lord has standards. Lord accepts only functioning washing machines
I've come to notice a persistent trend in yaoi manga/manhwa that frankly gotten to the point where it just irritates me—the portrayal of buff guys as ukes. It's a creative choice, sure, but one that feels like it misses the mark on what makes characters truly appealing and multifaceted. The beauty of manga, especially within the yaoi genre, lies in the ability to explore a rich spectrum of personalities and dynamics, far beyond the traditional molds that society often imposes.
But this incessant pigeonholing of muscular/"bara" type characters into the role of ukes seems like a tired trope that's been overplayed. It's not about the physical possibility or challenging stereotypes—it's about the lack of creativity in storytelling. The fixation on this dynamic underestimates the complexity of relationships and reduces the depth of characters to mere physical attributes. There are literally so many stories that have buff characters have the seme appearance (literally), and it feels like a lost opportunity when they are continually cast as ukes, regardless of their personality or the story's context.
It's annoying because it feels like a shallow subversion of expectations—taking what is traditionally seen as a symbol of strength and masculinity and flipping it without adding anything meaningful to the narrative or character development. It's a superficial nod to diversity that doesn't actually celebrate the real diversity of human experiences and identities.
I’d love to see more balance and innovation in yaoi manga portrayals, where a character's physique isn't the be-all and end-all of their role in a relationship. It's high time that buff characters are given the narrative space to be just as varied and complex as their less muscular counterparts.