Also, the seme in this story is a kid (=・ω・=)
this is a trend that wants to counter the years of fragile and frail uke portrayals, often without not much personality. i get what you’re saying here, but tbh 80% of yaois were never really written properly in the first place
While I agree that there should be variety in general, buff ukes are not the standard in yaoi. Small twinks are. So I don't mind a buff uke. I mind uke/seme in a childish body (like in this story). The shota creepiness pisses me off. Same with teacher/student stories. NO.
I get your point and I'm glad that you agree with me and I hope there are other's that agree with me as well that there should be more variety. That's why I started translating manga's as well. I'm also not implying that buff guys can only be semes (although I would love it if there more translated works that do have one), but being a reader of yaoi manga/mahnwa and using mangago as a preferable choice to read mangas and consistently seeing small seme x buff uke pairings of stories on the "create date" and "update tabs" of this site day in and day out for the last few years, it's just gotten to the point where it find it equally perplexing and disappointing to see the nuanced dynamics of a slender 'twink' seme and a buff, muscular uke reduced to mere novelty, stripping away the rich potential for character depth and the subversion of traditional roles to become nothing more than a trope that's been worn thin.
No worries! I too love me some classic smaller uke - buff seme stories! A lot of these stories that have a buff uke, the seme has the body of a child. So the contrast, its pronounced. Personally, I want more stories where both characters are in their 30s.
I'm only here because I saw this on a list, not my cup of tea. However, these comments are insane. Frankly this is fucking stupid because it assumes that the main appeal of "bara ukes" is the subversion. As someone who only likes bara ukes, and knows others who are the same, I can tell you that it's 9/10 times an aesthetic preference. I just like adult men with hair on their bodies and healthy muscle/fat.
The irony is that you can only see this preference as a subversion because you can't fathom that someone would just naturally prefer this more than a petite cute uke. It's not always a shallow thinkpiece on traditional sex roles, even though sure I am a fan of switching and role reversal, it's just what gets the author going. You know. Like any other yaoi.
Considering someone's preference as lesser than because you consider it "overplayed" and "pigeonholing", when its controversial enough that its only popular to a small minority in the overall BL fandom (and romance fans as a whole honestly), shows that you're really just trying to make an argument to defend the fact you're Just Not Into It. And it's fine, it's fine if you don't like buff bottoms. But don't act like they're inherently bad or the worse choice just because they don't suit your own personal tastes.
Its genuinely hilarious how this comment section is pointing out that the seme looks too young, meanwhile lamenting the fact that the uke isnt a shota himself.
It’s been about a whole year since I posted that comment, and you’re just now chiming in?
Also, it's pretty hilarious that you're going off about "aesthetic preferences" when you clearly missed the entire point of my comment. Also, where did I say I preferred petite, cute ukes???? Also, where did I imply that buff ukes were inherently bad???? I was pointing out the overabundance of a particular trope - buff bara guys being cast as ukes with a twink seme - and questioning whether it adds anything substantial to the story beyond physical appearance. The fact that you immediately jumped to the defense of "bara ukes" as if I attacked your favorite character archetype says more about your bias than my comment.
You argue that it's just an "aesthetic preference," but let’s be real here. When an entire genre starts to feel monotonous because it keeps recycling the same dynamic, it’s worth asking if there’s a lack of creativity at play. And sure, authors can write whatever they want, but does that mean readers shouldn't question why certain trends persist? Or is it only okay to critique the "popular" tropes but not the "niche" ones? Double standards much?
And speaking of irony, you're quick to claim that this trope is for a "small minority," yet you’re completely ignoring the fact that on Mangago, buff ukes are absolutely not in short supply. There's literally a whole list of them if you search for it in the tag. Like 200 pages of them. If this were such a rare and groundbreaking subversion, why does every other yaoi features the exact same setup? You say that I’m 'trying to make an argument to defend the fact I'm "Just Not Into It," but isn't it just as easy to argue that you’re making excuses for a lack of narrative depth because you’re too invested in this trope? Funny how that works.
As for the seme's appearance, let’s not pretend there isn’t an issue when the "aesthetic preference" you’re so keen to defend borders on shota. The point about the seme looking childlike wasn't just a random critique; it was central to why this particular story feels like a step too far. If you're going to jump on a soapbox about preferences, maybe consider why having a seme who looks like a child paired with a buff adult isn't exactly the hill to die on. Or does context not matter when it conflicts with your personal tastes?
Bottom line: My comment wasn’t about dismissing people who like buff ukes or saying those stories shouldn’t exist. It was about questioning why, in a genre known for pushing boundaries, we keep seeing the same dynamics over and over with no real innovation. But if you're happy with just repeating the same aesthetics without considering story depth, by all means, keep enjoying your "preferences."
I didn't even realise it was a year old lol this manga doesnt have many comments so I just found it easily. I can't be bothered to reply to everything you said but again my point was for some of us it isnt supposed to be "rare and groundbreaking" we just like adult men that look like adult men. Idrk why it has to be controversial to like porn that doesn't have a shit ton of plot. If I want a solid story, I'm going to look for series that are advertised as having that. I'm not going to porn to get a deep thinkpiece, though it is a delight when I end up finding that.
When I said "minority" I mean it in that the fans that specifically like taller, muscular ukes, tend to be the smaller group. Even outside of manga/manhwa, if you look at fandoms with a large amount of BL shippers, there's always certain characters that are regarded as the fandom dildos. If you consider these characters as bottoms, or switches, the fandom doesn't look at you too kindly lol.
Also, defending borders on shota? I fucking hate shotacon. I wasnt saying that a shota seme was a good thing. What ever fucking position the character takes idgaf because it's weird and it reflects on the author's depravity too. I literally opened my comment with "not my cup of tea" lol. So I think either I worded myself wrong, or you misread something. Even if we're arguing, please don't accuse me of supporting that. I think the both of us can agree that in any context, the sexualisation of childish appearance and traits is gross.
But, I find what you're saying interesting. It was my kneejerk reaction to start and argument because it gets tiring being considered weird because I don't like young looking ukes (and semes by extension. but feminine =/= young. if the seme or uke looks like an adult woman, then thats fine too).
Can I ask why you find it frustrating that these tropes in specific are being repeated? Is there something in specific about them that you think perpetuates harmful stereotypes? And what was your opinion back in the years (was it around 2010-2019?) where these larger ukes were not the norm, and instead it was very small ukes, with an emphasis on the height difference between characters?
Alright, I’ll give you credit for at least acknowledging the shota issue, but your knee-jerk reaction to "start an argument" still led you to miss the mark here. You claim that for some people it’s not about "groundbreaking" dynamics, just "adult men that look like adult men," but the frustration isn’t just about aesthetic preferences. It’s about the storytelling - or lack thereof - that accompanies this pairing trope. If a buff character is consistently typecast into the uke role, often with dubious consent or absurdly stereotyped traits, it raises the question: why is this the go-to formula? Why not explore other dynamics that can offer fresh perspectives? It's not that stories with buff ukes and small seme's are inherently bad—it's that they often lack depth in the way they’re portrayed.
Your argument that it’s "just porn" and not a "deep thinkpiece" doesn’t change the fact that repetitive tropes still shape audience expectations and normalize certain narratives. Even if it's just for the sake of enjoyment, can’t we question why these same dynamics keep popping up? And if we’re free to critique one trend, shouldn't we be free to critique another, regardless of whether it’s "popular" or "niche"? Or is criticism only valid when it targets mainstream preferences, while everything else gets a pass? Sounds like a convenient double standard, don’t you think?
As for your point about larger bara-like buff ukes becoming more common after 2020, that shift didn’t necessarily bring with it better representation. The pattern isn’t just "big guy bottoming"—it’s stories with plots that include the big guy being coerced, raped, or inexplicably submitting despite being physically stronger and capable of resisting. Why is it that the buff character’s strength is so frequently downplayed or ignored when they’re the uke, yet it's emphasized to make them look more "intimidating" when they’re a seme??? It feels like a half-baked attempt at subversion that doesn’t actually challenge stereotypes; it just repackages them.
And then there’s the inconsistency in how the BL community reacts to these scenarios. When a frail uke faces coercion or sexual assault, people go fucking crazy in the comments. But when the same happens to a buff character, suddenly it's just comments that it's "kinky" or "hot," and everyone looks the other way. Why is that? Are we only concerned about consent and power dynamics when it fits a certain aesthetic? Or is there a reluctance to address problematic tropes just because they don’t fit into mainstream concerns? If anything, that just highlights the double standards at play here.
Lastly, regarding your question about 2010-2019, I never had a problem with variety - buff seme/buff uke pairings, twink uke, even role reversals - those are fine as long as the dynamic makes sense and isn’t riddled with problematic elements. But now, it's like the genre has shifted towards this trend where bigger characters for some reason must be submissive, regardless of context. It's not that larger ukes are automatically "bad," but it’s frustrating to see their portrayal constantly reduced to some "bitch in heat" stereotype, often with little to no plausible development.
Okay now I’m starting to understand what you mean. I’m trying to hold back from making the connection between these tropes and misogynistic tropes in heterosexual romance. Because these weird narratives around the ‘strong’ character being put into their place or forced into a role they don’t want, feels reminiscent of how female characters are seen to be ‘overstepping’ if they are too masculine, too dominant, too independent. They’re made by the author to be forced into a ‘feminine’ role, as if to imply they are undesirable otherwise.
There is a huge problem in yaoi with rape and dubcon plots. Rape has become a trigger for me recently, and I find it very difficult to find stories that genuinely present enthusiastic consent from all parties consistently throughout the story. Especially with buff or aggressive ukes, it feels like part of the appeal for people is seeing someone be forced into a position they would never otherwise take. And I’ve never liked that: there is a difference between a tsundere who eventually comes around to their feelings through their own exploration, and a tsundere who is forced to realise their feelings through acts committed to them.
People will consider their ‘big ukes’ and ‘small semes’ unique while simultaneously just writing them in the most basic of plots, with very little chemistry because the author never bothered to make the relationship make sense past all the wacky situations that the characters get in, to stimulate romance/sex through forced proximity and drugs.
It is incredibly hard to find content with these kinds of character appearances that don’t feature some sort of uncomfortable trope. It’s as if these authors genuinely believe these characters would not be in the relationships they are, or take the sex position they do, if they hadn’t been made to. So often it’s the whole “Oh well I used to top all my partners and I hate bottoming, but you’re a top/inexperienced so I’ll just do it this once”. And then their history as a top is never once touched upon again because taking dick fixed them or something. The implications of these stories are harmful. And again, I’d honestly tie them back to the treatment of women both as characters and in real life. Like the strong women who refuse to submit just need a dicking before they’re hooked.
And the BL fans in these spaces refuse to see their own hypocrisy, and refuse to even think about why these tropes exist in the first place. Why do they see the bottom as the ‘female role’, and why so often is this role made out to be something to be conquered and controlled?
This honestly became a rambling of my own icks so you might disagree with some of it but I do see where you’re coming from with your original points.
insane stuff happening right here
mfw the gay porn gets philosophical
Nah, you're on point. The parallels with misogynistic tropes are hard to ignore, especially when it seems like authors deliberately strip away a character's autonomy just to fit a forced dynamic
I've come to notice a persistent trend in yaoi manga/manhwa that frankly gotten to the point where it just irritates me—the portrayal of buff guys as ukes. It's a creative choice, sure, but one that feels like it misses the mark on what makes characters truly appealing and multifaceted. The beauty of manga, especially within the yaoi genre, lies in the ability to explore a rich spectrum of personalities and dynamics, far beyond the traditional molds that society often imposes.
But this incessant pigeonholing of muscular/"bara" type characters into the role of ukes seems like a tired trope that's been overplayed. It's not about the physical possibility or challenging stereotypes—it's about the lack of creativity in storytelling. The fixation on this dynamic underestimates the complexity of relationships and reduces the depth of characters to mere physical attributes. There are literally so many stories that have buff characters have the seme appearance (literally), and it feels like a lost opportunity when they are continually cast as ukes, regardless of their personality or the story's context.
It's annoying because it feels like a shallow subversion of expectations—taking what is traditionally seen as a symbol of strength and masculinity and flipping it without adding anything meaningful to the narrative or character development. It's a superficial nod to diversity that doesn't actually celebrate the real diversity of human experiences and identities.
I’d love to see more balance and innovation in yaoi manga portrayals, where a character's physique isn't the be-all and end-all of their role in a relationship. It's high time that buff characters are given the narrative space to be just as varied and complex as their less muscular counterparts.