one of the shittest modern romances

While not relatable, this reeks of an abusive relationship, which is unfortunately very realistic. They get you by tearing down your boundaries, making you think you deserve it.

while what u said wasn’t wrong, we aren’t talking about the same thing. i was addressing dan’s boundaries; how he lets himself get stepped on, and is constantly forgiving or giving jae so much credit for his outbursts. that aspect of him isn’t realistic at all especially since he has modeled what a healthy relationship of love is (growing up with his grandma)

Well, I think it's more realistic than you think. There's a BIG power imbalance. He paid off his debt and saved his grandma. He's a big name, a celeb. I wouldn't fault someone for being in a toxic relationship. I doubt the author sees the situation as toxic, though, so there likely won't be any good outcome.

okay congrats? i know about their power imbalance and how it plays a role in dan’s decisions but i dont think it’s clicking for you what i mean. it’s not realistic for dan to be okay with his treatment and i explained why multiple times. i have deadass never blamed dan for being in a toxic relationship so idk where u picked that up

im addressing how he doesn’t reflect on or criticize jae’s behavior. instead of thinking “he shouldn’t treat me this way, but i have to deal with it” the part that is unrealistic is that he keeps defending him and giving jae the benefit of the doubt. that doesn’t reflect irl at all!! while it’s very realistic that dan accepts jae’s behavior bc of the power imbalance, what doesn’t make sense is how he goes out of his way to be believe jae is working so hard = his outbursts/abuse are justified. like im not saying their toxic relationship isn’t close to reality bruh, im talking about how dan is written to be this all-forgiving saint no matter how jae treats him and that part is annoying. also consider the fact the dan is falling in love with him while this is all happening?? unrealistic as fuck… it would’ve made sense if dan grew up in an emotionally insecure environment, but he’s had strong, healthy relationships with others before

u are arguing about something completely different from my initial topic so it’s hard for me to take u seriously. like i agree with you?? but u are misinterpreting my opinion

u need to remember that dan didn’t fall in love before being treated this way, and should be able to recognize first hand how this treatment is unfair. im not blaming him for being in this situation but how the author is basically writing him to be this altruistic mary sue which isn’t possible considering the circumstances. both things can be true at once: there’s a power imbalance so he has no choice to be treated this way AND he should also be resentful + not forgiving towards jae’s behavior

I wouldn't say he needs to be resentful. There isn't just one type of toxic relationship and you have to realize part of emotional abuse is gaslighting and tearing someone down. Not everyone reacts to being treated that way the same. Some people start believing they have it coming, rather than recognizing they deserve better ("he smacked me because I took to long cleaning the house. I should clean the house faster," for example). You also have to realize that he's a celebrity of sorts and while he wasn't aware of him before, he is shown to look up to and admire him, which would be more likely to make him try to justify the abuse from someone he now sees as a hero of sorts. Dan didn't like him before, but was with him to pay off debt and help his grandma. When Jaekung went out of his way to help his grandma, he started to see him differently and started liking him. This is starting to look like the cycle of abuse to me where the abuser will do something cruel to later do something kind and the person will justify it to themselves because the abuser isn't always like that.

People in universe reacts to Dan as a sheepish, weak character--which he is. Think of how the debt collectors treat him early on. He was just a punching bag 'cause they knew they could get away with it at the time. Jaekung came along and changed a lot for him because he's menacing and while that doesn't justify the abuse, it isn't uncommon to walk on eggshells to make an abusive partner happy. If he was a Mary Sue, people would be interacting with him in a way that isn't realistic. Jaekung's group treats Dan the way they do because they know Jaekung is difficult and Dan goes out of his way to help the whole group and isn't unpleasant. If you were to say anyone is a Mary Sue, it makes more sense to suggest Jaekung than Dan, but I think it makes sense in the story considering Jaekung is a celebrity, the source of both Dan's income and home, and has been shown helping and being kind to someone very important to him--his grandma. That isn't to say the situation isn't toxic, but I don't think the handling of characters have been unrealistic so far, given what kind of situation they find themselves in and the type of characters they are.

i already made my point with how dan is all forgiving and it’s not realistic to me. im not saying he NEEDS to be resentful, but how he’s not seeing any type of flaw in jae… like that’s weird?? they didn’t have an established relationship so far and everyone around jae is able to see how he treats others + dan like shit. even if he viewed the celeb as hardworking, he should have the ability to recognize jae’s awful behavior. KEY WORD IS RECOGNIZE. since i keep having to re-clarify this: dan is allowed to react the way he does but him being undynamic is not written realistically, but u keep going way off topic and making assumptions of how i view abuse and toxic relationships!!! i don’t disagree with you and its getting annoying have to remix the same opinions over and over. his reaction to getting mistreated isn’t normal, even with the previous debt collectors, and u need to understand that. it’s not the fact that he thinks he deserves the treatment, it’s how he doesn’t recognize awful actions and instead defends him in multiple instances. i don’t think u get what an altruistic mary sue character is either if u think it suits jae batter than dan. and u forgetting all the horrible things jae has done, bc dan started falling in love with him AFTER it was suggested jae could like him back; not because of how he paid the off his debt. and ur remind you this happened after he was brutally raped!! regardless of dan’s dependency on jae, im not saying he allows jae to treat him that way, im talking about how there’s no indication of him ever seeing jae’s actions as wrong. abuse victims react differently and are complex people, and in dan’s case he should be able to identify behavior he doesn’t like vs behavior he does like.

It isn't realist TO YOU. But--weird--the world has more people than just you on it. Huh. Strange how that works. Also I see you don't know what a mary sue is. Good to know.

dude who are you arguing with? if it was realistic to you, great!! make your own post!! i said i agree with the points in your reply but we aren’t even talking about the same topics. it seems you struggle with identifying critical issues and make assumptions that fit your narrative. it doesn’t seem like you’ve had enough life experience or talked to enough people to separate your preconceived notions from other people’s perspectives. you said their depiction of toxic relationships was accurate, a statement that you made and thought i disagreed with it. but i never talked about their dynamic in that way and you keep creating MY opinions about it even though i haven’t spoken about it

im addressing his reactions and thought processes because they fall in line with typical innocent-all forgiving saint characters, and abuse victims aren’t like that!!! have you ever talked to an abuse victim or gone through it yourself? im literally bringing attention to how the author keeps making dan see jae in a positive light when he’s defending him for things outside of their agreement. i know he gets treated better by jae compared to the og debt collectors but it doesn’t make sense how dan goes out of his way to justify why he’s allowed to do it. he justifies it by blaming the outbursts or rape on jae’s stress and pressure; what he doesn’t say is how he has it better now so it’s okay to be treated that way. do you see the distinction? i have no idea how to make it click in that close-minded/stubborn head of yours that i agree with you but you’re coming at me for the wrong thing. good to know there are people like you who need to find something to argue about, because if you read my initial post and replies without a stick up your ass you’d know that we both agree on the same thing. but still, you clearly don’t know what a mary sue is nor how to form insightful arguments- weird huh?

we keep going in circles because you think i don’t see their dynamic as realistic but that’s not even a claim i made. if you read more media and talk to more people you’ll know what im talking about. the world has more people than you that can point out how badly an author writes a character and im hoping you’ll also have the skills to not only defend abuse victims like you did here, but also point out when their reactions to abuse aren’t accurate depictions of real people. it was strange how aggressively you came for me when our thoughts were basically parallel, but you nitpicked one line i stated (dan’s boundaries) and ran with it

I'm well aware that people use mary sue as a term for any female character they don't like. I'd like to say it's progressive of you to do it to a man, but he's gay, so doesn't really count. It's crazy how you're saying you're not saying what you clearly are. Weeeird.

bro what are you even talking about. obviously this label is typically used for mostly female characters, in its literal definition, who fit this trope so i was making a comparison and how his traits align with it. the term isn’t restricted by gender, it’s that the term mainly applies to women because the phenomenon in media is popularized because of how many fit this stereotype. ever heard of figure of speech… also what does him being gay have to do with “progressively” using this term? im speechless

what i find weird is how u have to resort to being petty instead of admitting you were the weirdo for coming at me when we agreed on the same thing. what am i clearly? since you seem to know so much about me who was only complaining about a shitty webtoon. id love to hear it ms i-can’t-handle-being-wrong and i make up for it by being delusional about another person’s claims

this conversation could’ve been insightful or informative but you’d rather come at me for things you made up, just to get the last word. it’s tiring and if you put more thought into what you say, you’d realize people would want to talk to you positively if you could be more aware and tasteful of how you say things. weird that out of all the things i say, you get really nitpick-y about the most random phrases i use rather than address the actual issue in my replies to you- how our arguments are parallel but you misinterpret what i say and start calling me names rather than provide actual sustenance in your criticisms of me. it’s sad but kinda funny. do better and read into peoples think pieces a bit more before going off an a tangent

All I can say is people react differently. And this situation is very…I mean very realistic.

i don’t think you both are understanding what im saying. for the last time, i know people react differently. i also know this situation is realistic!

MY OPINION is that dan defending jae in every situation where he’s clearly in the wrong is unrealistic, NOT THEIR DYNAMIC DUE TO THE POWER IMBALANCE. there’s situations that are grey in between them, the rape and having to comply with jae’s requests, and those make sense to me how dan believes he can’t refute due to their money relationship. however outside of those im criticizing how dan is forgiving or outwardly defends everything he does; and is even falling in love, when their interactions (after the paid off debt) have been anything but respectful of dan as a person. does this clear things up???? this isn’t a realistic depiction of a person’s responses of abuse to me, because he doesn’t blame himself- he always always see’s jae in a good light. this would make sense if they’ve had a deeper relationship before but jae was just a celebrity who was known to have a bad temper. im irritated at the fact he could see the debt collectors actions as bad (the sexual assault) but can’t view jae’s as bad. even if it’s written in their contract, he should still be able to identify it and that’s the problem to me- it feels like the authors way of making dan gloss over the abuse not for the sake of showing an abuse victim’s experience, but just so they can skip to the romance

It's very understandable why Dan would defend Jk. Dan knows Jk has a bad personality, but he has also seen some good aspects in Jk too. Jk is literally the only person who has helped him this much, you won't foresee less.

I know it's quite annoying considering Jk’s bad personality but tbh Jk is actually suffering. And I think Dan has also picked up on JK’s abnormal behaviors too(like a trauma kind of thing).

I don't think Dan thinks Jk is raping him but only abusing him. And he blames himself because he kept hesitating which led to the abuses. About Jk suffering, I wonder how hard he would have worked to get to this point when he has that Jinx. He was triggered because his whole career could literally drop just by that article. Believe me when I say Jk is scared, his behavior in these previous chapters is even understandable because so many athletes tend to act like this when triggered or scared. And Dan definitely understands that. He doesn't want to annoy Jk any further. I've seen situations like this too irl that's why I'm saying it's realistic the way he defends Jk. He also thinks he doesn't deserve the treatment but his care for Jk surpasses that complaint. He literally likes the dude. He's also responsible for whatever Jk does be it training, physical health, and sex.

you stated exactly what annoys me about dan and jk. dan’s understanding to jk is insanely disproportionate, regardless of the favors that jk has done for him. like i explained previously, it would be more realistic if they had formed a more intimate/equal relationship prior to the abuse. paying off debt + helping us grandma binded dan, but causing dan to see him in a good light ONLY after never speaking to him outside their permitted work hours/brutally raping him/targeting or hurting him every chance he gets, isn’t reasonable. having that background would make sense to me, because he would have seen different sides of jk and have definitive reason in his mind to play devils advocate for jk. however, he was pretty neutral, romantically, and only admired him for his hard work- nothing more but nothing less, before their first meeting. although dan was extremely grateful, it felt like the romantic feelings/dan’s understanding of jae came so suddenly when there wasn’t any build up after those two instances (debt/grandma). there’s reason for him to excuse and defend jk when it comes to the terms of their contract, but not the repetitive and blatant disregard towards him and even to jk’s other training mates. im also referencing dan’s lack of boundaries to include when he literally let himself get beat up in order for potato to get to fight a match with jk; as this self-sacrificing behavior is so stereotypical for bl main characters and sets them up to be punching bags for the sake of plot/romance. like this tendency of his is unreal because that universal, all-giving kindness is more of a plot device and having zero sense of self preservation (while facing these types of experiences) is not very human-like. so, it doesn’t click with me that dan is able to take on all these burdens but never reflects on any of jae’s actions or have any negative view of him. assuming that dan reads between the lines of jk’s behavior, it’d be reasonable for him to redirect his thinking to say these actions are unnecessary and unfair for other people if not for himself

it’d be sensible for dan to admit, he didnt think it was okay for jk to be disrespectful while also keeping in mind he doesn’t have the power to voice these things out loud. as i reader i want to see him more as an understandable mc, not a holy and all forgiving angel that came to save jae from his woe. i too understand that in there dynamic where dan is not allowed to complain, but for him to vouch for jae’s behavior after he leaves the room and basically find the reason for his actions as noble or honorable feels extremely forced to me- not a result of the dan’s “admiration ”/ care for him

given your explanation it’s still unrealistic to me because of how repetitive his assault and digusting behavior is blinded by dan; since he’s so understanding of jae’s hard work, injuries, and internal/external pressure. although in dan’s eyes jk is a flawed being, i hate how he has to feel the extremities while ignoring his pain just to be jae’s savior. because with all bl manga, mc will never get an apology or true understanding from their rapist romantic counterpart. if you want to see a more realistic/sensible example of this type of dynamic, imo “waterside night” is a peak example of it. also thank u for being informative and respectful in your reply, it’s appreciated

last thing, i wanna say if u still disagree im very firm on what i believe on this story because i have considered the possibilities of how dan can act this way + if it’s justified to me or not. there’s so many modern bl written in this trope with different fonts and im tried of these mc’s being treated like this (broke / in debt being saved by abusive / manipulative rich ml)

if it’s realistic and justified to you, im not trying to disprove you but only state why i feel this way. if we can’t see eye to eye, there’s rlly no point is regurgitating the same opinion with more reverb’d explanations. we can just leave from this convo with our own opinions