I know. ╥ ╥
I guess because it adds conflict…but there are definitely WAY better ways to do so.
For real. I alternate between reading stuff this dark to fluffy ones, like "Our Sunny Days" or "19 Days" to keep me sane. Lol
Because women authors can't fathom that men can just be gay, just cause they're gay
I don't know about that. I think it's more to do with what women authors know of men in general rather than their actual sexuality. I read yaoi because the characters and their relationships (barring odd tropes and extenuating circumstances for drama purposes) are far more realistic than any shoujo or josei I've read. Because people do act and react this way, even if it isn't the vast majority out there. I have many gay friends and some are the feminine type, some aren't. None of them rape or are obsessive, but they make mistakes like everyone else. Women have this thing where we want a hot guy who's obsessed with us to the point where it's almost criminal, but it's only okay if they're hot and a "good person" (what that equates to changes depending on who you ask) deep down under the crazy. So we push that into our stories and characters. Most writers always push their desires of a perfect partner into their characters. But everyone wants to be the one who changes the baddie into a goodie. They're called "fixers" and it's actually a syndrome now. Lol. That's why most tropes now in yaoi are about the abuser turning into a changed man midway through and proving it or saving the abused. (〜￣△￣)〜
But a lot of yaoi authors are women from very toxic homophobic places and hard stereotypes on genders.
It essentially becomes this weird heteronormative loophole where the top is the man, and the bottom is the woman.
But the whole point of being gay-- is that you're both men.
And unless the bottom is into bdsm they don't just let themselves get treated like shit, especially because they know we can't just get it from any random hole.
It's hard to find another gay man that isn't being dangerous with condomless cruising.
Thats the direst opposite where I live. I liver near palm springs and l have so many gay friends that just meet these asshole guys, top and bottom. My bestie is gay. He hasn't been in a long-term relationship ever because people just suck in general.
I don't know about how gay people are in other countries though. I do know being gay in other countries is harder because of they are less accepted, even if society is starting to accept them there. But, yeah, I see the gender stereotyping even in hetero relationships. Or you have that woke crap that is the complete opposite and makes no sense either. I swear, entertainment in general is just creating people who are toxic or abusive and trying to pass it off as the new norm. So you get one of two trips for a bottom; a vapid, naive moron who gets completely abused and has no personality, or they are spoiled, entitled and greedy little things. And the semes are just as bad, you either get an abusive jerk who maybe changes after hurting the uke, or you get the puppy. I've only found a few manga where the uke is somewhere in the middle and the seme is too. I heard that gay authors are on the rise for yaoi, though. But I still believe the women write the way they do because of what THEY want and because they have that "fix it" syndrome. Its the most romantic thing for most to say "he changed for me". Hell, I'm a woman and even i fall for that in stories sometime. Lol. I havent found anything on statistics of how many women authors of yaoi vs men there are. Do you know?
Nothing wrong with being awake to the bullshit of bigotry and unfairness in the world.
That's what being woke is
For example; pro-choice = woke, BLM/Stop Asian Hate = woke, lgbtq+ is woke, not beating children up is woke, listening to men's pain and not belittling them when they cry is woke.
Conservatives just used terms like snowflake and woke to belittle people that decided not to continue to be bullied by injustice and inequality.
That aside, I agree.
I'm so tired of the stupid one dimensional characters, lines, troupes, arc's, and more.
Like, not everyone is insanely jealous to the point of stalking or crying because their partner has friends or is still friends with their ex.
It's just so ridiculous.
And I'm not sure about the statistics.
But almost every author I'd look into was a woman, or a female that identified as a man.
A few were anonymous authors with no traces of their socials.
But you can kinda tell when someone is a woman or a man, based on it's the female cisheteronormative gay vibes, if it's a woman but the story is healthy, or if they're a guy because the story is just utterly ridiculous and riddled with jokes and the characters look more realistic.
Such as bara. That's a yaoi-verse which is written by mostly exclusively men.
By like, ugly old white men.
You can tell just by looking at the ugly art.
In SoCal, woke is beginning to mean so.rthing different. It's no longer meaning what it's original definition was, which was to be against discrimination and prejudice as a whole. It's more so that it means a cultural norma that suppresses anyone that becomes oppressive and hypocritical with their far left and liberal beliefs. Its the same with entertainment. Woke agenda is becoming increasingly toxic with pushing a specific narrative and then saying everyone is wrong for believing in something else. All I can say is that everyone is going about it the wrong way. Tolerance is sticking a "gender neutral" sign in a bathroom door; acceptance is just putting up "restroom". People are so hung up on labels now that it's becoming ridiculous. And they get so offended when they aren't called by a specific term and yet don't give the same courtesy to others when they are uncomfortable either calling them that or being called something in return. Like the term "cis", for example. It's extremely offensive to those of us that are heterosexual, but people who push that term onto us don't care because they think they're right. They feel that because they're "offended more" that somehow it's okay to offend others. Its not. Even the LGB community out here is trying to separate the TQ+ community into its own clique because they've had enough of the political bs that is unreasonable and unnecessary.
Anyway, I'm sure we could talk for days about that. O.O
I agree about the trope with the semes. My husband is the least jealous person I know. I can't get that guy to be jealous even if I flashed someone. Lol. But we also have absolute trust in each so that's the trade off. ╮(￣▽￣)╭ in fact, I don't think I've ever had a bf who was jealous. . Far less in the world than they portray in manga of any genre. And most certainly not among the gay crowd I know. Unless you get the really flamboyant annoying type that is a super insecure bottom. Those guys aren't exactly dating material for anyone though.
I find more ukes to be one dimensional than the semes. Authors really write the story for the seme not the uke and it makes me wonder why they bother to write the story from the uke's pov in the first place. It would be a nice change to see a story start off from the seme and stay with him the whole way.
Also not a fan of bara. But mostly because I'm not into hairy guys or buff guys. At all. Like, I do NOT understand the appeal of Channing Tatum. He's hideous. I'm very much into androgynous men that are Asian. Doesn't mean I ended up with one or even dated any, but that was my preferred type. Lol. What you want and what you need don't always coincide. Just in general, though, with bara, the art feels so messy so it's hard to tell what's going on because everything is so one-tone even when they're not bears. Besides, most of those stories are straight up hentai, and I'm good on that. When I read, I want to read a plot, not dicks. I have a tendency to drop a lot of manga that loses plot once the characters get together and the author only focuses on sex. Like "my suha" or "hold me tight". Such promise only to lose it for sex-over-story nonsense.
Regardless of all that, I feel bad for blowing up the OP's comment section. You and I both seem long winded. Lol if you wanna keep talking, feel free to message me. :)
There are good men and bad men, just like there are good women and bad women. There are writers who like toxicity and they have an audience who like it. There are writers who like fluffy or funny and they too have an audience. There are plenty of yaoi that is not toxic and they are written by women too. Real life is messy, abuse exists but love and kindness exists too. It is up to the reader to chose what version they want to read. Saying that "yaoi authors are women from very toxic homophobic places and hard stereotypes on genders" is you stereotyping OUR gender. Just because we read or write toxic yaoi doesn't mean we really believe that is what gay life/sex is like. We actually understand the concept of fiction. Not to mention that there are plenty of straight stories that are pretty damned fucked up. Everyone acts like toxicity is exclusive to yaoi because women want to demean men or we have an skewed view of what gay life is like. And that's just not true.
This was really well said
Very well-said. I agree wholeheartedly.
Thanks!
Thanks!
Everyone acts like it's just us women reading these stories. There are plenty of men who read them too, and they are eating this shit up too. Everyone keeps pointing the finger at us women, like we are the ones making yaoi toxic. But it's not about gender, it's about individuals and preferences. Plenty of people love non toxic yaoi and there plenty of stories out there for them. Yes, the toxic ones do get more attention and if you want a non toxic one, you have to go look for it. But that just proves that people LIKE toxic stories, including men. I know plenty of men who ARE supper jealous and possessive, but I know women that are too. Just like I know plenty of men who love "bad boys" they can tame. Same as women. Again, it's about INDIVIDUALS and preferences, not gender. We shouldn't let people make us, women, the scapegoats for toxic yaoi.
I agree. I was trying to not be combative and outright say something to potentially start an argument or offend them because they seem so set in thinking that straight women are the bane of the gay community, when it's actually straight women that support them the most. Placating someone is the best way to de-escalate a situation that could get out of hand, you know? And I certainly didn't want to blow up another person's thread. Mine? Sure, not someone else's that hasn't said anything in response.
But, yes, to each their own, I always say. Everyone has a preference, everyone writes differently. As far as yaoi coming out in the past 5 years, it has taken on more of the toxic trope plot rather than a wholesome one. I think it makes the wholesome ones even better, though. Lol. And thats what I meant. Yaoi from earlier than that (before webtoons were even a thing) weren't as bad. There were some out there for sure, but most were I rape you because I love you and it's only one time, thing. A lot of the yaoi was more mellow though, for sure.
Women do have that fix-it mentality, though. Men generally don't. It's actually not common to find a man with a fix-it mentality where they are drawn to someone because they feel the urge to fix what's broken. Mostly, men are drawn to those than need protecting. Studies show that that's actually an instinctual thing, in the same way that women are more compassionate/empathetic than men. However, I find that women and men can be equally cruel, just in different ways. Personal, I can't seem to keep a woman as a friend, which bums me out. They either think I'm after their s/or, which makes no sense because I've been in a state relationship for 10 years, or we don't see eye to eye and they can't reconcile those differences. I don't understand why so many people can't grasp the concept that we can differ on opinions and still respect one another. It's such a simple thing and yet so many people just can't do it. They have to be right, or win, or change your opinion. And if they can't, you get booted out the door. It's the same way with talking with people now too about any topic. They want to argue, not debate. And if you put logic in their path, they personally attack you. It gets old fast and no one deserves that kind of abuse. I swear though, some of the insults were akin to yo-momma jokes. Lol.
Anyway, I digress. I agree. Women aren't destroying yaoi and there will always be calling for almost every type of story, regardless of what people think.
Yup, you get it!
For real.
I didn't even think about OP's notifs
⁄(⁄ ⁄·⁄ω⁄·⁄ ⁄)⁄
Yeah, I can't read all that right now, cause I gotta go to work soon.
But cis isn't about sexuality, it's about gender.
I'm a cis gay man.
So that means I was born assigned male at birth, identify with the gender I was given at birth, and I'm gay.
Left politics is less about forcing, and more about there being more than one way to exist.
Whereas conservative beliefs is more about forcing their genders and sexualities onto others, especially children.
But I'm gonna put a pause in this for now, because I want to finish what you wrote before I continue.
But gotta go to work. ╥﹏╥
Why can’t people make manhwa without having to include rape