Sowon is not a good king. There I’ve said it. He’s not horrible, he’s just no great....

i dont see soowon as egotistic which for me, makes the whole yona-shouldnt-rule concept even more complicated. like i didn't really expect him to agree that yona had the ability to rule. but i also didn't expect him to deny it. there might be some other reason for his decision

Yeah ı agree with that. Zeno might be a better choice than Yona. Better Leader, better life for citizens

I don’t know, I personally don’t buy the “he’s doing it for the better of the country angle”. He had a warped childhood where he actively worked to murder and dethrone his uncle, after finding out his uncle’s hand in his own father’s murder. So more like a revenge plot and not some higher noble cause to take the throne for himself.

To me the simple fact that he hasn’t even considered Yona screams ego.

it could also be his prejudice for anything affiliated with the crimson dragon king. like how he declined the offer of that woman from kai who mentioned using the four dragons to rule. i feel like he believes that such a belief of a legendary king is what took everything from him; his dad and his mom.

Could be ╮(￣▽￣)╭

when his father got murdered everyone wanted to immediately assasinate king il but he decided to wait and see if he's capable of being a good ruler though. if he was only driven by revenge i don't think he'd do that. he clearly cares about his people or else he wouldn't be working his ass off at the expense of his health when he's already gotten his revenge

I don’t understand what’s the point of “observing if king il is a good king” when he could have just as easily married Yona and inherited the thrown, and did whatever he wanted with the kingdom afterwards. Sowon had no idea Yona’s father would have disagreed, he found out the day he murdered him. He had no problem sending assassins after Yona to presumably get rid of the competition to the thrown. What he did just doesn’t add up to me.

And someone who works an unhealthy amount of time doesn’t necessarily mean they do it because they care, it could also very possibly mean he’s avoiding dealing with the fact that his illness is seemingly incurable thus far.

king Il definitely wouldn't let him marry yona and he was aware of that. i don't remember the exact chapter so i'll just copy paste it from wiki

"At some point, Emperor Il told him that Yona was the reincarnation of King Hiryuu and that he (Soo-Won) was different. Later on, is revealed that King Il had always been hostile towards Soo-Won, even when he was a small child. When Yona was just born, Soo-Won went to greet her as a toddler, but King Il would not let him get close and chastised him as unpleasant. Another time, when Soo-Won and Yona were playing and about to enter Hiryuu Mausoleum together, King Il said that the mausoleum was no place for him. The night Soo-Won avenges his father, King Il tells him he will never be the Crimson Dragon King and that Yona, the rightful heir, would bring about his demise."

although he did hate king il and wanted to take revenge he was probably willing to give it up if he decided he was a good king. the country was already in a terrible state under il's ruling, having to wait years to rise to the throne would have serious consequences especially when other countries could invade them at any moment. i also don't think soo won would want to marry yona with hak there but he probably would've done it if it weren't for the other factors.

if he absolutely did want to get rid of her though, he wouldn't have hid her when they met in awa. sending people to kill her and hak when they ran away but not taking the chance to eliminate her when she was defenseless and even going as far as to hide her makes no sense. sending asassins after them was probably to show his determination to the people in his side, that he wouldn't be afraid to betray his closest friends if it's for the sake of achieving their goal. he's kind of a jerk but can't really blame him. also he overworks himself cause he cares, it's shown in almost his every inner monologue

We can go back and forth on this for a week, but I’m not really interested in that. Most of what you wrote are your own personal interpretations to the story, whereas I wrote my own.

It’s not like I’m saying Sowon is a one dimensional character and he’s the ultimate evil. He has his good and bad sides, but most of what he does is illogical - in my opinion - for a character who as you describe him supposed to be “virtuous”.

Sowon only really found out King il wouldn’t have let him marry Yona the day he was murdered. Even if king il was “hostile” towards Sowon in those 3 instances, it doesn’t mean he couldn’t have married Yona any way. He waited years until he himself got to a right age where he could rule, even though if the country was in such a poor state he could have decided to overthrow king il years prior. I believe it was implied in the beginning that Yona thought she’d be marrying Sowon in a matter of a year or two, so not sure the “waiting years” and the kingdom in shambles really applies here.

To me it’s a stretch to say Sowon didn’t want to get rid of Yona in the beginning, he presumably would have very easily had his childhood friend killed that night if it wasn’t for Hak who saved her from certain death. Sowon not killing her when they met again could possibly mean that he couldn’t do it with his own hands, or that he’s become interested or intrigued by her now that he’s seen her survive certain death and grow out of the experience.

Also “he’s kind of a jerk but can’t really blame him” sounds to me like a warped attempt at justifying all his actions no matter what the cost and consequences are, not a very healthy mindset to have.

those 3 instances are only the ones that are shown to us to portray the general relationship between soo won and king il and are proof enough. king il knew he was one day going to be assasinated, he also realized that soo won was highly influenced by his father. if he didn't even want them playing together as kids, felt the need to emphasize they're on 'different levels' at every instance and outright told him that hiryuu mausoleum is no place for him there's no way he wouldn't be against him marrying yona and becoming the future king and there's no way soo won wouldn't know that. it's not just my baseless belief but an interpretation supported by facts. soo won also couldn't risk leaving it all to the decision of someone who disliked him, as long as king il was alive he wouldn't able to do whatever he wants with the kingdom and waiting for his turn in the throne would take a long time. you can't say a pampered 16 year old princess's idea of when she would get married is a trustworthy source when it comes to politics when she couldn't even realize how tense it was between her father and soo won.

i already told you that attempting to kill them and sending assasins after them in the first arc was to show his determination and yes, he would do it. not 'want to' do it but would do it. because in his mind, the kingdom and his father's wish of making the country stronger was and is way above anything else. but he doesn't follow the exact same path as his father precisely because he chose to sacrifice his friendship with yona and hak when his father put the safety of his mother above his duties as a prince. when he didn't kill her in awa that wasn't because he couldn't do it by his own hand, he could've just easily get her killed by his men whom he hid her from. "he’s become interested or intrigued by her now that he’s seen her survive certain death and grow out of the experience" really? you're making him seem like some cartoon villain now, if you couldn't figure out that soo won always cared about hak and yona to some extent from his countless inner monologue, facial expressions and dialogue you should probably reread. i'm not trying to say he never did anything wrong and all his actions are justifiable but i can understand why he's done them instead of following another path

Again it’s your own interpretations, people can have different opinions and very different views on the exact same thing. And both different opinions can have “facts” to support both views. Its sounds like you just want me to say “you’re right” and not have any sort of discussion.

You said it yourself if king il was so against and hateful towards Sowon when he was a child he wouldn’t have let him be friends with Yona for so many years, maybe king il was also waiting to see if Sowon changes his mind about his scheme to murder his uncle and cousin.

Your entire rant about Sowon sending men to assassinate Yona and Hak, and then him protecting her is again you interpretation of the story, I simply don’t think like you.

I’m trying to portray Sowon as a cartoon villain? When I specifically wrote he has a good side and a bad side, and that I don’t think he’s the villain in the story? I don’t understand where you got this from, since I also never implied he didn’t care for Yona and Hak, he clearly does, I was only saying he might have saved her in that minute because he was intrigued and surprised that his naive childhood friend actually turned out to be a strong independent woman and I he wanted to see how that plays out.

I see the reasons that are given for Sowon’s actions, but I also see far better ways that could have been thought of and taken that wouldn’t have ended up in such a disastrous way.

i don't think your interpretation of the reason he couldn't kill yona in awa fits his character, leaving yona alive wasn't some test to see what she would do that would literally have no point, he probably thought she would keep living there quietly and peacefully, she didn't seem like an 'independant woman' to him either since he said her still being alive is obviously because hak stayed by her side and protected her. of course you can have your own opinion but it just doesn't click with me when there's a way simpler explanation.

some things are pretty certain, soo won does care about his childhood friends but he cares about his goals way above anything else. marrying yona wouldn't %100 guarantee his succession for obvious reasons mentioned in the story and he couldn't risk it because of the state the country was in and the crimson illness. keeping all that in mind, the choice he made was cruel but understandable. some of his actions like justifying his father's war crimes are still messed up but overall, i don't hate him and he certainly isn't all self important. according to hak he's the complete opposite of that.

if you're gonna say everything is my own interpretation and completely subjective we can't have a proper discussion either cause in the end, we're not gonna be able to figure anything out. i'm not going to be replying further since this isn't going anywhere.

The way you provided more evidence than the other person shows your argument wasn’t purely your own interpretation too lol

Wether you choose to reply or not that’s your own prerogative, ain’t nothing wrong with that, you do you. Example, I had to skip through your last comment cause you seem to repeat your opinion over and over just waiting for the other person to agree with everything you say - not how you hold a conversation.

It also seems to me personally that you don’t realize that your interpretations of a work extends to your interpretation of the characters and their motivations, and yeah we don’t agree on any of those. Just because someone understands a story differently doesn’t mean you can’t hold an honest conversation with them, you don’t have to “convince” anyone of anything, and they don’t have to end up “agreeing” to everything you say.

One thing we agree on is that this whole discourse is pointless, but yet again for different reasons. Hey at the end of they day this is just a manga and a story, nobody needs to get butthurt over it ╮(￣▽￣)╭

and i guess your way of discussing things is just coming up with random reasons for certain characters actions (when there's absolutely no foreshadowing that could explain that thought process) fitting how you want that character to be like intead of how they actually are based on all their actions, thoughts and dialogue so far in the story. some interpretations just contradict some things happening in the story and when that happens, you can't call that an interpretation, you call that attempting to brush over the other person's argument without actually having to explain why they might be wrong.
agreed on the last part though

Bro, both of us are literally using the exact same scenarios happening in the manga and giving them completely different interpretations, it’s not like either of us is making up entirely new scenes to support whatever it is we want to convey. If you haven’t noticed that so far I have no idea what to say to you beyond that.

There is no “how they actually are”, do you not realize stories and art are interpreted a thousand different ways by a thousand different people? There are no contradictions when the story is still evolving, and you have no idea how the mangaka intends these scenes to be understood. You’re basically projecting what you are doing - Attempting to brush the other person’s argument off - on to me. When all I’m saying is I accept how you view the story, I simply disagree. If what you’re waiting for is a “you’re right”, it’s not gonna come from me. So it’s better if you do what you said in the previous comment and not reply…

"If what you’re waiting for is a “you’re right”, it’s not gonna come from me." if that was my intention i wouldn't bother arguing back and forth with someone who clearly doesn't have any intention to do that. i'm just doing it to kill time but it's flustrating when the other person doesn't even consider anything you said.

now let me explain what exactly you're doing. it ended up longer than i thought it would so feel free to skip over it again if you think you're oh so intelligent that anything you said can't ever be wrong.

first you said soo won's only intention was getting revenge, i gave you several reasons as to why that might not be true, they were things that weren't really up to interpretation. the fact that he's trying to make the country stronger isn't something you can reject cause it's a fact supported by his every single inner monologue, dialogue and action. if he says in this inner monologue 'my goal is to make the country stronger' you can't go and say 'i don't think he wants to make the country stronger he just wanted revenge and that's my interpretation' cause that clearly contradicts an established fact.

if he was only motivated by revenge he wouldn't bother trying to make the country stronger risking his own health. and you replied 'he's not working hard cause he cares he might just be trying to distract himself' again, i mentioned a few of his actions that would contradict that, he's clearly accepted the fact that he would die soon and him desperately trying to find someone to replace him and carry on his wish is proof of that. you mentioned nothing that could lead to the thought process you talked about.

you said he could've easily married yona and i gave you again, several reasons why that wouldn't guarantee anything. i can't bother writing it all so just reread it. in response, you said "king il might've been testing him to see if he would really kill him" but gave no proof or mentioned anything that could lead to him having that intention. that's not how an interpretation works, you don't come up with random reasons without any foreshadowing, you analyze their actions/thoughts and think of a motive supported by them.

then you said soo won didn't kill her cause he couldn't do it by his own hands when he literally hid her from his guards whom he could just order to get her killed. that makes no sense. you saying he became interested in her for becoming an independant woman when he clearly said he knew she was alive only cause she's being protected by hak doesn't make any sense either. if you don't even understand that i'm gonna assume you can't properly read

and yeah, i'm seriously gonna stop replying after this cause i feel like i'm trying to explain things to a 9 y.o

Dude just take a breath, your literally up in arms about me just saying I don’t agree with you, honestly it’s kind of weird.

I don’t skip over what you wrote because “I think I’m intelligent” as I’ve already mentioned I do it because it’s my prerogative, and my mind goes blank when I see long ass posts, so I stop registering the words I’m staring at, it becomes hard to focus. Plus your arguments seem to repeat themselves with no added information, so I save myself the headache of trying to focus.

I don’t believe I said his “only” intention was getting revenge, I implied - I personally think it was a driving motive throughout his childhood for killing Yona’s father, his uncle.

Again everything is up to the interpretation of the person reading the story, the fact you don’t realize that, is sad to me.

Everything you use as an example to support your own interpretation for Sowon’s character I’ve used in my own interpretations, so repeating your examples and saying I gave none doesn’t make sense to me at all, since we’re basically talking about the exact same scenes.

Calling me a 9yr old doesn’t make you sound smarter or more mature. In fact it does the opposite. Have a nice day ╮(￣▽￣)╭

i don't really care about how it makes me sound cause my point stands regardless of your impression of me. i just said it's flustrating cause i feel like i'm talking to a 9 year old who doesn't even attempt to consider what the other person is saying. feel free to get offended if you want but like you said, there's no need for anyone to get butthurt over this. some of your theories made sense, most of them didn't and some of them were straight up, objectively wrong according to canon. in the end, it's just fiction. have a good day