ik everyone debates whether or not Karino

I agree with you. They do have some sort of relationship and both Karino and Azusa do find the other attractive but... They are not in love. If their relationship progresses there is a possibility of love being formed but right now they just like each other. Karino definately likes Azusa. Azusa likes and hates Karino.

Their relationship isn't developed enough for it to be called love.

he does prob just not love yet

I don't think any of the characters in Caste Heaven understand love. I think Azusa has feelings for Karino and focuses on Karino over other people, but that could be dependence as you say.

That's what I think too.

Why do u say that? What makes you think so ?

I don't think any of them do either, but tbh I wouldn't say that I understand love myself. I don't think of it as him focusing on Karino. I see it as him being unable to rely on anyone else. Karino, makes it so that he can't depend on anyone else. And rn no one else has the power to be dependable for Azusa. The way I see it, is that Azusa has no other options, but before (when he was King) he felt that he had other options and had chosen the best one (Karino). But now he has no other options, or rather the other options are shittier and he has chosen the least shitty option (Karino). Again, Karino has a lot of the control in the situation, he always did. Azusa just didn't see how much imo.

Tbh, I wouldn't use the word like. imo crush = like, and rn I think there's (a lot) of lust (only/mostly) . Rn their relationship is very complicated cuz it used to be something else and it has suddenly morphed into something different. It's a power play. There's someone in charge and there's someone submitting. IMO, it's like a master/slave relationship. Yk since they're King and Target.

Karino could be monopolizing Azusa so that Azusa only looks at him. Because before although Azusa had a different relationship with Karino compared to the other kids, Azusa still only saw Karino as somebody to use. He tried to use Karino to get the king card ( he even said 'then let me use you all I want'). I have a feeling that it really pissed Karino off when Azusa treated him like he treats the rest of their classmates. Then again, Karino keeps a distance as well since he doesn't let Azusa into his house. So maybe his intention was to monopolize Azusa at first but now it's weird. They are both stuck in this sex/ lust filled relationship with no development. And yes Azusa really did start having feelings for Karino after Karino kissed him when he was the most vulnerable but Karino ruined it by distancing himself. Idk what's happening tbh. I don't think the boys really know what's going on between them either ahaha.

But Karino is the biggest actor in the world. He let Azusa treat him like that, even though he didn't have to. He let Azusa feel like he was the true king and had all the power. He's really a sadist on the inside. It was all fake. He wasn't really Azusa's slave before since he was pretending the whole time. Azusa didn't only think of Karino as a slave, he was genuinely upset by his betrayal and hurt by it. I don't think Azusa likes him now. He has no other options but to depend on him. I see it as submission and not love. Cuz he's picking the least shitty option. And the sex is great.

I've just pointed out that Azusa reacts only on Karino and no one else (in my topic), he didn't even like the girls that much, if you remember (either the breasts were too small or the moans too fake). If Azusa did't like having sex with Karino, he wouldn't come for and demand it (I will remind those scenes in my next #Karino/Azusa). Sex is very important part of love for sexually healthy people and they're both young and full of desire. Apart from that they are both strong and smart (one a little more than the other, but still), they're both hot, but lonely. Whether you call it love or passion, or else - depends on what you conseder to be "love". But there are different kinds of love anyways and Ogawa likes to show the non-cliche ones to begin with.

I interpreted the acting as a kind of flirting ahaha. And Yea ur right. Azusa is picking the least shitty option. He's submitting for now whilst planning his revenge on Karino because he's hurt.

Karino certainly took options away from Azusa but Azusa could have responded by not taking Karino homework or beig happy when Karino didn't want to see him. Azusa responded by resolving to make Karino bow to him (which he hadn't been trying before) and by trying to make sure Karino doesn't just move on after high school. When Azusa had his option taken, he could have shut down and stopped engaging with Karino--maybe focus on his studies or try to switch schools. But what Azusa wants isn't to be free from Karino--it's to make sure Karino isn't ever free from him.

The word love imo =/= lust. They're both physically attracted to each other. The sex is great. But Azusa has enjoyed sex before Karino. Azusa loves sex and feeling good. I've never denied that. Sure. he's not straight. But that doesn't mean he loves Karino either. Btw health and youth don't always have to relate to sex. You can have great romantic relationships without sex. It depends on whether or not that's important to the person or not. And sure maybe sex is important in relationships for Karino and Azusa. But the way i see it that's all there is.

First of all, sorry for pressing the thumbs down, I meant to hit reply. I think you're forgetting what Azusa is like. He's a strong character. He considers himself above the game, he wants to be independent and rely on no one but himself. But he can't. I think u forgot what's happening. But Karino said that if he didn't become his own personal fucktoy, he'd let all the other boys fuck him. He was going to get gang raped. And he was once, for Karino to prove his point. When Atsumu was kind to him, Karino made Atsumu fuck Azusa. You don't understand what it means to have no options. He's not a coward. He's so stupidly brave that he wants to fight Karino head on. He wants revenge. He was raped, and is raped over and over again. He's abused and mistreated and treated like shit. He wants to be respected again. And he was betrayed. His own personality wants him to fight and not back down. That's just how he is. He's not gonna run away from his problems. He's a natural fighter. But it's hard when he has literally no choice but to rely on the same person who put him in this situation.

LOOOL flirting. I can see why'd you say that. His natural instincts is to fight. But he has to wait cuz he's literally on his own, and has no one to rely on except the same person who got him into this shitty situation.

But Azusa has enjoyed sex before Karino*---------------

Not really, like I've just mentioned he was always annoyed and unsatisfied with those girls. Dudes he didn't even let close to him.

*But that doesn't mean he loves Karino either. And sure maybe sex is important in relationships for Karino and Azusa. But the way i see it that's all there is*------

As I said, no matter what you call it, Karino is the only one who gets special treatment from Azusa. Besides, if Karino will stop pushing him away and hurting his pride, Azusa might become more open about his feelings.

*Btw health and youth don't always have to relate to sex. You can have great romantic relationships without sex*----------

By youth I didn't mean 12year olds and I said sexually healthy people.

- Yes, he has. We see him get annoyed with one gf's boobs. But his character is introduced as an experienced good looking player. He's nowhere near as good of an actor as Karino, so his talk about it isn't just talk. He clearly likes sex and getting off and has many times before Karino.
- He didn't want to have sex with Karino either. He didn't want to be his fucktoy. He'd just picked having Karino fuck him over all the boys in their class.This relates to my next point.
- Azusa started to like the sex. But he's always liked sex. He never knew he could like anal sex or sex with a guy. He's never checked out any guys including Karino. He never considered it on his own. It's only after he's raped repeatedly does his body start to like it/get used to it.
- He's generally nicer to Atsumu now. but i don't call that anything. Do you?
- I think if Karino was more honest and real towards to him Azusa would actually start to fall for him.

Oh, I don't think Azusa is a coward. I even agree he wants revenge. But I think as part of his revenge, he wants to foce Karino to acknowledge him and not leave him behind.

PS Thanks for telling me about the annoying--I've done a thumbs down by mistake once too. I have to admit I thought, "Damn, I managed to offend somebody else...out of all I've been writing lately, why is that the comment that people don't like?" (⊙…⊙ )