I can gladly say I learnt something today
oh wow thanks for telling
I mean fiction affects reality like how a pinch of salt does to a serving of food for hundreds of people. It's there, but how significant is the question?
1:1 is not the answer. Not even 0.5:1. To begin with, this was an r18 content so *KIDS SHOULDN'T BE READING THIS* that's a first.
Which leaves us to impressionable adults. If these adults cannot adhere to common sense when they read BLs, then Hannibal, Exorcist, and John Wick are worse.
Separate fiction from reality. Separate the freedom of art and literature from man-made regulations. If you don't like it, you skip it. Not everyone enjoys Hannibal or Twilight or Dr. Seuss.
I doubt all people who read yoai are adults : from reading comments on various stories I assume there's a lot of minors, even younger than adolescents
The movies you cited are quite different from yaoi:
With horror movies and other violent movies, people can rather easily discuss about it if they were disturbed, whereas people reading yaoi mostly only discuss it online.
Additionally, the movies you cited correspond to another situation : "reading fictions that clearly present a fucked up situation as fucked up is okay, because I understand that the author and readers understand and acknowledge the consent issues at stake" (3), whereas the issue I raised with some/many yaoi stories is when there is no such acknowledgement. "I don't have issues with readers enjoying fiction with rape, even less with rape play, I have issues when it's normalised."
Therefore the comparison doesn't fully hold.
when I talk about the normalisation of rape,
maybe a few example as comparison:
- a fiction in which characters are more or less openly racist but it's not shown as wrong nor is a history fiction (and maybe the victim of racism feels attracted to the racist because they are so superior/cool/beautiful/noble)
- or parents beating up their children shown as normal and/or a proof of love, in a similar way to raping showing the passion and lust of the rapist, with the child respecting and obeying the parents because they are superior/cool or because they have a complicated life and thus they must understand and grit their teeth without even asking for help or asking for psychological expertise (of course I bet it's less sexy in a story, but fortunately there are other things - a whole scale of possibilities to change the situation - between accepting rape and putting people to prison) ^^
However, JP artists often made it explicitly clear these content are only for R18 for fear of what you said. I agree, I doubt there aren't r18 on this site. But that just means that it's no longer the issue of content, but the issue of regulating how kids consume their entertainment.
Children do not always fully comprehend that something is being condemned in a movie or something is being celebrated in it. HENCE THE R18 label.
Plus I don't think ppl actually walk out of a theater and starts discussing "Oh my, how upright was John Wick for he had exacted his revenge in such fashion" there are actually more simping comments instead lmfao
Kids who watch too many violent movies DO actually get influenced to be violent. The movies I mentioned celebrated violence. Excessively. But we're adults. If a good guy drives a car in the opposite direction on a highway without seatbelt in a movie to run away from his chasers, we don't do that when a police is asking us to pull over.
But as an adult who loves yaoi, I haven't tried to push down any man I see on the streets.
"When artists show characters who did X but was not condemned for it."
I keep reminding people this is their story. And inside a story, you do not get to police how they wishes it to go. To be morally correct is not their responsibility.
Art is liberal and should never be limited to man-made regulations. If you think everyone has to be morally right in movies because kids watching shows they shouldn't be watching would be influenced then we'll only have Barbies and Dora the Explorer showing.
A man's capabilities to separate fiction from reality is not a creator's responsibility. Hence we curate what we read and watch as proper adults. If something is R18, it is r18 for a good reason lol
1 - warning a character sexually assault and tries to rape one of the main characters (you've been warned, I won't say more about this point)
2 - yes the two main characters are in a consensual relationship
3 - yes it's good to bring real world issues into fiction
Explanation:
2 : I'LL USE HERE BOTH MY OWN OPINIONS AND FRENCH LAW.
Not Japanese law because I think it's not serious enough on sexual consent. So I chose French law, which of course can't legally be applied here, as an example from a developed country, that is quite representative of other similar countries and isn't criticised by European law and human right watchers either.
This article from a French public administration explains a recent French law:
"No adult can rely on the sexual consent of a child under the age of 15, or under the age of 18 in cases of incest."
(original version "Aucun adulte ne peut se prévaloir du consentement sexuel d'un enfant s'il a moins de 15 ans, ou moins de 18 ans en cas d'inceste.") (translation made via DeepL) Source: https://www.vie-publique.fr/loi/278212-loi-21-avril-2021-violences-sexuelles-sur-mineurs-et-inceste
The definition of rape under French penal code is the following: rape is "any act of sexual penetration of any kind, committed on the person of another, by violence, constraint or surprise".
(original version : "tout acte de pénétration sexuelle de quelque nature qu'il soit, commis sur la personne d'autrui, par violence, contrainte ou surprise") (translation made via DeepL) Source: https://www.vie-publique.fr/en-bref/19859-24-recommandations-pour-lutter-contre-le-viol
Now, let's compare with what we know: in the situation of this manga there is no incest thus the age limit that applies is illegal "under 15" not "under 18". The character is at least 15years old, and most likely 17 or 18 years old if as Antiso_ny says he is in his last year of high school, and supposing he didn't skip a class. The main character and male lead do act of sexual penetration, but none is committed by violence, constraint or surprise.
Therefore, what happened between those two characters is not rape. It can be considered, from the information we've got, as consensual.
Now, after the legal part, my own opinion :
Here the age gap is very large. I understand people who find it unsettling. I am personally not shocked because the president of my country, France (E. Macron) literally met his wife when they had that sort of age gap (he was 17 she was around 35-40) so haha it just doesn't really shock me ^^'
(Well my president is bad for other reasons like his climate policy is absolutely not as good as he says it is and he represses demonstrators and leads a bad economic policy for our public services, but, all that to say that it's not a point that was really discussed during his electoral campaign French people just weren't really preoccupied by it)
3 : REAL WORLD ISSUES DO COUNT
Consent is sexy and precious, so well for my enjoyment I like it. I just feel more confortable reading it. But it's not just a matter of taste.
One thing is that it makes me feel safer. Like, reading fictions that clearly present a fucked up situation as fucked up is okay, because I understand that the author and readers understand and acknowledge the consent issues at stake. In that sense, a number of psychological/thriller fictions do a decent job (not all unfortunately). And plays with S & M are made to be safe in that regard. So I don't have issues with readers enjoying fiction with rape, even less with rape play, I have issues when it's normalised.
And most importantly I really appreciate that fujoshi fudanshi yaoi-readers and authors are caring more about this than before because rape culture is a problem and because fiction isn't 100% neutral. People read it so it affects reality.
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(long post finished)
(￣∇￣") have a good day