Wasn't yw drunk too that second time? He was actually more drunk. Don't think it really counts since he thought he was imagining it and the reverse could be said, that tw took advantage of a drunk yw clearly out of his mind (im not saying this). And I think when that noncon kiss chapter was revealed everyone was upset with yw and his noncon behavior and they understood why tw was upset. People only appear to be more upset at tw or less upset at yw now because tw's bad behavior is ongoing so people are commenting on that.
Same thoughts
agreed. yw def needs some personal growth but as for the non-con shit, he apologized and asked for forgiveness in that chapter where he got drunk, which i do not count as part of his non-con actions. he was more drunk than tw, so imo, tw did actually take advantage of yw. so he does not need growth in terms of that kiss, he realized it was wrong and understands very well why it was wrong. so leave him alone on that shit.
tw definitely has a right to be pissed at yw even after getting yw's apology, he doesnt have to forgive yw at all. what he doesnt have the right to do however is use yw as some sort of emotional shamwow at the expense of yw himself. and this is why yw needs personal growth, to stop allowing this.
i cant hate either and im rooting for both of them, but i have to agree that tw is easier to hate because he currently is a shitty person to not just himself but yw as well. yw is mostly only hurting himself right now. lets also note that yw did that non-con kiss in high school as a KID, yes, a high schooler is a kid, and tw is doing his current actions as an ADULT who will soon graduate from university. yw was unintentionally bad, tw is intentionally bad.
i slightly agree but being a kid definitely is no excuse to do what he did, he was a teenager and should have known better anyways. and i think the complicated thing about TW and YW is that TW is being a dick but most of the problems arise from self sabotage on YW's part. TW is an asshole but he's not pretending like he isn't, he's technically not stringing YW along because he never ever implied he felt anything for YW at all. YW knows that TW doesn't like him because it really isn't a secret, but he chooses to still sleep with TW cuz he doesn't care. a lot of what YW subjects himself to shouldn't be considered to be TW's problem, since he's not forcing him to do anything or even emotionally manipulating him. he's literally just being a jerk. but you're right when you say what YW does is self sabotage and just hurts himself, but still TW isn't forcing him to do anything so how much can he be blamed for beyond just being a sucky person in general. i personally think TW is just an assjole who needs to learn how to care for other people and needs to learn that HIS actions ALSO have consequences and deserves to have consequences. and YW needs to learn how to respect and appreciate himself, then he won't allow men to treat him like a doormat.
just wanted to clarify that i never said that yw being a kid excuses him from what he did. he clearly did know better but let his emotional impulses violate someone else in his sleep. yw knew he should not have done it before and after the kiss. im saying that yw did a shitty thing as a kid while tw is doing shitty things as an adult. the one thing about being a kid for yw is that teenagers literally have less impulse control wired into their brains (this is part of why of we have laws on teens driving and drinking and why we have juvenile centers, we are not done developing as teens). they literally do things without thinking through the consequences, so even if yw knew better on the large scale of his whole life, he literally wasnt thinking it through. this is not an excuse, just an explanation for his actions, he still shouldnt have done it and he was def wrong. while with tw he literally knows what he is doing, he is trying on purpose to be mean or a jerk to yw. a simple solution is to just not have contact with yw at all, but hes clearly chosen another path. tw ultimately chose to be a part of yw's life and allowed yw to be a part of his, so that means he needs to adjust himself, not keep up his jerky behavior. and i dont think that yw accepting tws behavior mean that tw is not responsible for his behavior, and it seems we agree here. he can def be blamed for his actions. what if tw woke up and liked that kiss? does that make what yw did ok? nah. just changes the consequences. i dont think its fair to blame yw's self sabotaging behavior for tw's behavior. tw doesnt have to take advantage of that. just like yw shouldnt have taken advantage of a sleeping tw.
i just gotta say, being mad at TW is valid cuz he def isn't great in the relationship, but are we simply gonna ignore that YW kissed him without his consent and then jumped on him while he was drunk? of course TW isn't gonna like him very much as a person, especially cuz now we know he's had some previous experience with non-con as a child. i think they both need to grow as people, not just TW