This is not yaoi.

I completely disagree. I don't see anything wrong with labelling this story as a BL (I personnaly don't like the terminology "yaoi"). The relationship between Ikuro and Norihiko isn't romantic, but it's still an important part of the story. The relationship between Ikuro and Iida will surely play a big role in the next chapters, and because Iida was sexually interested in Ikuro, I guess it will evolve like that.

I don't think this story shouldn't be considered as a BL just because love relationships aren't the main subject. I want to see many more BL were the story doesn't only revolve about the development of a romantic relationship. The Ikuro/Norihiko relationship is despicable, manipulative, abusive... But it's the case in many BLs, and at least in this one, Norihiko is depicted as a villain.

Plus, you know, labels mean everything and nothing. Tourou no Ori is a BL because it's published in a BL magazine, and because Psyche Delico is a BL author. I agree it's not a classical BL, but it's one nonetheless. And the "BL" label is also to warn people who absolutely do not like to read/see sexual relationships between males.

And the sexual acts are drawn to be sexualized. Compare the sex scenes to other works from Psyche Delico with consensual relationships. We're supposed to find it sexy, but in a wrong way. Rape is a popular trope in hentai/hardcore yaoi. It doesn't mean it's fine to rape or rape is cool. For some, it's a fantasy.

im not sure what youre trying to make a point out of. seggsual scenes makes it a yaoi. its not that complex

BL stands for boy love and there is no love in this manga. I’m quoting you here “The Ikuro/Norihiko relationship is despicable, manipulative, abusive”, Norihiko groomed the mentally traumatized Ikuro from a very young age. There is no way to even tell if Ikuro is gay, or straight for the matter. The story isn’t about homosexual love or romance, it’s about a traumatized boy who is being groomed and raped by Norihiko and other men. Therefor it shouldn’t be called yaoi, and absolutely not BL.

I do agree the author is sexualizing it, that’s why I’m saying it shouldn’t be ‘read’ as something sexy. The story is fascinating, but being turned on by it (even if that’s what the author intended) is disturbing.

So every movie with a sex scene is a porno?

My point is that a story like this shouldn’t be sexualized, I don’t see how that’s hard to understand.

Most BLs shouldn't be sexualised. The genre is ultra problematic to begin with so I'm not entirely disagreeing with you but at the same time, I don't feel like this one should be especially targeted.

I absolutely agree with you! I’m especially targeting this one because it doesn’t just sexualized homosexual relationships, it’s sexualizes trauma, rape etc.

im not digging deep into this point your trying to make. im just stating things out. by definition it simply pertains to japanese comics involving homosexual erotica. a manga can be a horror and still be yaoi even if it involves only a single seggs scene. on a generic term its BL and the labels yaoi and shounen ai are only used as a form or disclaimer or warning

But you aren’t just “stating things out”, you are trying to disprove my point. I know that it by definition is a yaoi and honestly I just not picked at this specific manga because I just read it. I think the entire genre needs a big change to stop the sexualization of gay men and romanticization of rape and trauma. Your argument reads as if you’re justifying that same sexualization and romanticization just because that is the definition

*nitpicked

I agree that they should stop romanticizing rape but I’m not sure that this work is necessarily trying to do that. In all the sex scenes Ikuro is made to appear pitiful, trapped, and confused, if not scared, and most people here would agree and that’s why we want him outta there. If there’s any romanticization, it’s by sickos who think all of this is okay despite it clearly being portrayed as not.

If it fits the tag, it needs it. It has explicit gay sex, regardless if it’s hot or not - yaoi/BL. It’s specificallly about rape and trauma - tragedy, psychological. When you see those labels paired, usually there’s rape, manipulation, and/or an unhealthy relationship that crumbles. For example, there’s a horror sci-fi yaoi oneshot where there’s 1 explicit gang rape scene but it’s not meant to turn you on, it’s the motivation for the MC to kill all the guys. There’s another disturbing yaoi manga about child molestation - it has 1 explicit scene but it’s not meant to turn you on, it’s actually really sad and fucked up and I didn’t even finish it.

I don’t mind the use of rape and trauma for the sake of horror or disturbingness or tragedy because some people find that “interesting”, myself included. Maybe you just wanna feel bad for someone else or make yourself sick - I dunno people have different reasons. The real problem is when you have technically a rape scenario but it’s not made to be disturbing or pitiful or scary and is instead let go as nothing or encouraged. That happens more often in regular yaoi than works like this.

My point isn’t about what’s portrayed in the manga though, my point is about how it’s perceived (and how it’s portrayed). Tagging it as a yaoi sexualizes it, and people will therefore read it as a yaoi.

I’m not going to elaborate a lot on this, but what I meant with romanticization of rape in this context is: All of the sex scenes in this manga are rape, and if the manga is sexualized the rape will as a result be romanticized. I definitely think this manga handles rape better than many other yaoi, but it’s more about how it will be read.