Reply so I can roast you more

I hid a comforting brownie in a snickers~ (=・ω・=)

Maybe if I act completely unhinged, they will excuse my ignorance on the grounds of insanity.

-Thee Poop Joke

Actually, I was just quoting a snickers commercial. :D
Roast me more~ harder daddy~! *moans*

Your rage just makes me so embarrassed of my actions >//^//< I'm such a bad person! Teach me a lesson! Call me out more~!♡♡♡
You're such a great person~ a great voice for all people~ tell me that I'm awful~!♡♡♡

I don't think you're an awful person. I just think that instead of observing equally relevant opinions around you and educating yourself so that you do not carry messed up notions into the future, you stubbornly try to defend yourself instead of knowing better for your own sake. I still have the same things to ask you.
A) what did you mean by saying that it's called "Sadistic Beauty" for a reason? does sadism encapsulate criminal behaviour?
B) how is sexism, misandry, rape, abuse, assault, unwanted humiliation, suicidal imagery, abetment to suicide and physical/mental coercion a normal part of sadism, especially in BDSM?
C) Why is it normal enough that it doesn't need a trigger warning especially for readers who might be rape victims themselves or may be suffering from the aftermath of any of the things I mentioned above?
D) why should I excuse the author and like her work where she actively celebrates the severely problematic elements by calling it graphic bdsm instead of rape and even calling the rapist a "bdsm queen"
E) are you saying that these crimes and toxic behaviours are normal in the bdsm community?
F) should people who misrepresent the community be excused because it's "fiction"?

We can talk as much as you want.

Fine fine~ if you're so curious about my opinions.
A) it's called Sadistic Beauty for a reason means that when people read it they should except sadistic acts to be preformed in the story. In real life, that should not encapsulate criminal behavior even if the other party gives consent.
B) as was to my understanding before people have been jumping down my throat, I considered all except the suicidal issues a part of sadism, especially if the other person consents. The suicide things, I admit were well demonstrated, but, I don't agree that it was good to include, however, without it, would you have honestly felt so strongly about Minho in the end?
C) I have said nothing in regards to everything mentioned above being normal. However, i pose a question back to you: why would and ex victim of similar abuse go anywhere near reading this kind of story? Surely they have enough common sense to stay away just from the title and cover art alone, yes? The people who read comics like sadistic beauty are mainly people who haven't gone through this and are clearly just in it for the fantasy aspect of it, but would never act on it. I'm not guaranteeing that, I'm saying a majority of people wouldn't.
D) I'm not saying you should like her work~! You don't have to, no one is making you~! And for the most part, the author did make her a 'bdsm queen' especially when the other characters consented. Minho is not consenting, thus it was rape and a crime. I do not condon that behavior. HOWEVER, Minho is not a good person. It doesn't matter what his home situation was or how he grew up; the bottom line is, is that even though he had a supportive group of friends who cared about him and were there for him that time and time and TIME again he: insulted, belittled, talked shit about them behind their backs, and even stole from them. YET, he had the gull to come back time and time again to ask for their help like they owe him something or should always be there for him no matter how he acts. To me, all the characters, except Wookyung, acted as they should, minus the assault, because there is usually a limit to how much people can take before they finally look at someone and go 'why the fuck am I still friends with this person if all they do is take and not give?'. Friends and their support are a privilege, not something you're entitled to have: a fact Minho ignored for literal YEARS and then wondered why no one was there to support or give him help when he needed it.
The protagonist tried to put the past behind her with him, but found that she couldn't and left, but he kept clinging to her. She did what she did to scare him off, yet he stayed. If he had learned ANYTHING, he would have gotten the message the first time around and not come back. But he did and still had the balls to demand kindness from her like it was owed to him.
E) no, I am not. As someone who is not in said community, I have little to no knowledge about what goes on in the BDSM community. I support it as long as both parties are consenting adults and know what they are doing.
F) if the community is misrepresented and the author did not know or bother to look into the community at all especially if the opportunity was available, then no.
If the community was misrepresented and the author had no way at all to look into the community and no way to check their facts, then yes.

My beef is mainly with the fact that Minho was written the way he was because he was supposed to be disliked. His 'submission' and the karma aspects of his behavior are more or less a part of a fantasy element of bdsm that I believe should not be practiced without consent of both parties. I have a very strong feeling that most people in the bdsm community would never commit such acts without consent and most people who read this story, judging by the comments and topics, have enough common sense and morals to not act on such behaviors in real life. If young minds, such as teenagers, read this and cannot clearly discern the very real and apparent difference between that line fine of reality and fantasy, then clearly that is their problem and it needs to be discussed with a professional as a majority of people do not have this issue.
With everyone jumping down the author's throat about the mistreatment of Minho, even though he was created to be disliked, it is very clear that most people who have read this can clearly see the line between fantasy and reality.
In my belief, by taking away everything bad that happened to Minho in the story, and yes, some of it was overkill, everyone is essentially calling for censorship of this story, which is simply that: a story. It's not real life, and examples shouldn't be taken from it. Simple as that.

Your turn ٩(๑❛ᴗ❛๑)۶

Fine fine~ if you're so curious about my opinions.
A) it's called Sadistic Beauty for a reason means that when people read it they should except sadistic acts to be preformed in the story. In real life, that should not encapsulate criminal behavior even if the other party gives consent.
B) as was to my understanding before people have been jumping down my throat, I considered all except the suicidal issues a part of sadism, especially if the other person consents. The suicide things, I admit were well demonstrated, but, I don't agree that it was good to include, however, without it, would you have honestly felt so strongly about Minho in the end?
C) I have said nothing in regards to everything mentioned above being normal. However, i pose a question back to you: why would and ex victim of similar abuse go anywhere near reading this kind of story? Surely they have enough common sense to stay away just from the title and cover art alone, yes? The people who read comics like sadistic beauty are mainly people who haven't gone through this and are clearly just in it for the fantasy aspect of it, but would never act on it. I'm not guaranteeing that, I'm saying a majority of people wouldn't.
D) I'm not saying you should like her work~! You don't have to, no one is making you~! And for the most part, the author did make her a 'bdsm queen' especially when the other characters consented. Minho is not consenting, thus it was rape and a crime. I do not condon that behavior. HOWEVER, Minho is not a good person. It doesn't matter what his home situation was or how he grew up; the bottom line is, is that even though he had a supportive group of friends who cared about him and were there for him that time and time and TIME again he: insulted, belittled, talked shit about them behind their backs, and even stole from them. YET, he had the gull to come back time and time again to ask for their help like they owe him something or should always be there for him no matter how he acts. To me, all the characters, except Wookyung, acted as they should, minus the assault, because there is usually a limit to how much people can take before they finally look at someone and go 'why the fuck am I still friends with this person if all they do is take and not give?'. Friends and their support are a privilege, not something you're entitled to have: a fact Minho ignored for literal YEARS and then wondered why no one was there to support or give him help when he needed it.
The protagonist tried to put the past behind her with him, but found that she couldn't and left, but he kept clinging to her. She did what she did to scare him off, yet he stayed. If he had learned ANYTHING, he would have gotten the message the first time around and not come back. But he did and still had the balls to demand kindness from her like it was owed to him.
E) no, I am not. As someone who is not in said community, I have little to no knowledge about what goes on in the BDSM community. I support it as long as both parties are consenting adults and know what they are doing.
F) if the community is misrepresented and the author did not know or bother to look into the community at all especially if the opportunity was available, then no.
If the community was misrepresented and the author had no way at all to look into the community and no way to check their facts, then yes.

My beef is mainly with the fact that Minho was written the way he was because he was supposed to be disliked. His 'submission' and the karma aspects of his behavior are more or less a part of a fantasy element of bdsm that I believe should not be practiced without consent of both parties. I have a very strong feeling that most people in the bdsm community would never commit such acts without consent and most people who read this story, judging by the comments and topics, have enough common sense and morals to not act on such behaviors in real life. If young minds, such as teenagers, read this and cannot clearly discern the very real and apparent difference between that line fine of reality and fantasy, then clearly that is their problem and it needs to be discussed with a professional as a majority of people do not have this issue.
With everyone jumping down the author's throat about the mistreatment of Minho, even though he was created to be disliked, it is very clear that most people who have read this can clearly see the line between fantasy and reality.
In my belief, by taking away everything bad that happened to Minho in the story, and yes, some of it was overkill, everyone is essentially calling for censorship of this story, which is simply that: a story. It's not real life, and examples shouldn't be taken from it. Simple as that.

Your turn ٩(๑❛ᴗ❛๑)۶

XD what did I even read.
Do you understand the story is openly advertised as ROMANCE and BDSM story? There are no warnings, it's literally tagged as romance which is clearly misleading and it's author's RESPONSIBILITY to correctly label their story?

Author calls Doona at the very end of the story, bdsm Queen, after many rape and abuse scenes which weren't addressed AT ALL or acknowledged. I see you don't understand the core of the problem. And Doona didn't have questionable scenes ONLY with Minho.

It doesn't matter what person Minho was when we are talking about RAPE, SEXUAL ASSAULT, ABUSE and TORTURES.
Btw Supportive group of friends? Did I miss something? Name ONE friend beside guy with glasses.

"supportive group of friends who cared about him and were there for him that time and time and TIME again he: insulted, belittled, talked shit about them behind their backs, and even stole from them. YET, he had the gull to come back time and time again to ask for their help like they owe him something or should always be there for him no matter how he acts." like either I have amnesia... Or you have to explain this part.

You clearly don't want to see Minho's character is absurdly badly written because author has to JUSTIFY and belittle the abuse he faces. He is raped, tortured, degradated but he keeps acting the same. It doesn't have ANY impact on his character which is just unbelievable. And why? Because we have to have an excuse to justify Doona's abuse. That's the problem of the story. That Doona's wrongdoings, her misdeeds are never recognized, she is called BDSM queen to the very end meanwhile Wookyung is classified as a criminal.

My turn?

A) Not exactly, sadistic acts do not come with a label of "anything goes" especially when consent isn't involved. It wasn't the sadism that got to me, it was that every time Byun Minho said "no", mc proceeded to rape him. Consent isn't a "once given", it lasts throughout the duration of the session so that either partner can withdraw it if and when they feel uncomfortable. Let's make one thing very clear, sadism by definition is one thing and under bdsm, it means something entirely else. mc carries out sadism ONLY under bdsm which is an entirely consent based community. If you carry out sadism without consent it is rape, assault and abuse. If mc was doing the same acts as a villian or just for the heck of it, I would've understood but under bdsm??? no fucking way.

B) Once again, you're wrong when you say that all those crimes come under bdsm. That is not sadism what mc did under the pretense of bdsm, it was assault and abuse. Let me again make it very clear that bdsm does not in the least, support sexism, misandry, rape, abuse, assault, unwanted humiliation, suicidal imagery, abetment to suicide and physical/mental coercion. I don't know what gave you that they do but please do better wth. Also you mentioned "feeling strongly" about Byun Minho which is extremely horrific to me because it sounds like you're justifying the author's use of these crimes as some kind of shock factor without realising the impact of such elements because if she had she would've provided a trigger warning right before the chapters in question. You're sick if you think that using suicide or rape as a wow factor in a romance smut is a wonderful thing. Also giving trigger warnings, even as a small note, is not an extremely difficult thing to do but it shows that the author understands how these sensitive topic affect different people and a forewarning would likely protect such individuals from reading the content and hurting themselves.

C) Once again, what an extremely offensive opinion. Victims of abuse? are you implying that in order to feel disgusted by rape/suicidal imagery you need to have suffered it first and worse, that a piece of work has no duty to sensitise a reader who may happen to feel strongly about these subjects beforehand? my whole complaint with the series would have been thwarted if only the author had warned me about its contents. This manhua had a disastrous impact on my mental health because I didn't know what I was getting into, I kept hoping that the problematic behaviour would change and be corrected, instead it was glorified and rewarded in the end?? "People who mainly read sadistic beauty" do not agree with you because look at the comments. Do you think all these people are here to purposely shit on it? that they're all victims of abuse who accidentally got themselves into this train wreck and are now complaining? it's good you don't guarantee that a majority are in it for the "fantasy" aspect because you're wrong, a majority of people, even those who were in it for the "fantasy" aspect did give a shit about how problematic and unaddressed some elements in the manhua were.

D) Oh god, it keeps getting worse. I would like to say that "for the most part" the mc is a rapist. Period. mc was in college when she was introduced to bdsm and as a fully grown adult, consent is basic human decency, not something that you need to be specifically taught. Even if you have to be taught consent, in case that is what helps, there is no law that states that "you may rape a person you do not like". If your bdsm acts are selective as to "I will rape this person" but mostly I won't rape anyone so wow I'm such a bdsm queen, you're actually sick. mc, at no point, was forced to carry out assault against Byun Minho and yet she did it all on her own independent will which means she is actually a rapist. No excuses. Most victims of verbal abuse go their whole lives not raping anyone, I wonder what pushed mc to do it outside of her own accord. Imagine if rapists were freed from jail because "for the most part they have had consented sex in their life" jeez, you're part of the problem. I know this is fiction but for you to even say that...

Anyways, the second you mentioned Byun Minho is a bad person, I knew it's downhill from there. He's not the villain of the story because villains perform terrible acts out of pure pleasure (like mc and Wookyung) and are driven to ruin the lives of others by sheer ill will (Wookyung). Even if Minho talked behind mc's back, belittled her, verbally abused her, went back to her, tried to insert himself into her life, even if he tried to stay after mc scared him, pushed him away, warned him.. she still had 0 right to rape him as some sort of payback or revenge and yes it was rape because everytime he clearly said no and was visibly uncomfortable with the acts being performed on him. The act should have been stopped with him saying no but it never did. You're right, mc owes him nothing but she also doesn't have a right to assault or abuse him. That's whole person not your personal property. The author even showed Minho having traumatic flashbacks for shits and giggles because nothing really came of it did it? He was neved supposed to be empathised with.

And when you say that protagonist tried to put it past her... really? Byun Minho graduated from uni, worked his part time jobs, did his internships and got a job. He spent those 10 years working for the Dean, being well respected by his students and did not once try to insert himself back into mc's life. On the other hand, who took a chance to lock him in a room and rape him repeatedly to vent out 10 years worth of anger induced stupidity? who learned bdsm only to metaphorically "strangle" the person they love and hate so much. Those 10 could have been spent of therapy, or finding supportive friends who understand bdsm of even falling in love but mc did none of those things and clung to her hatred of the man.

Also talking about friends, do you think mc treated her friends or her subs right? the only reason Haesol stayed with her was because he was willing to ensure her selfishness. Just because she admits that she's shitty doesn't add to the fact that she literally doesn't change and continues to rape until the last few chapters. Changed people don't just suddenly decide to rape somebody. The mc and Minho are both trash but when mc became the rapist and Minho the victim... Ooh boy, I knew then what the narrative was going to be. Atleast Minho did not rape anyone, was respectful to mc back in college. Doesn't excuse his toxic behaviour but his toxic behaviour sure as hell doesn't excuse mc's supposed reason to rape him. Keep arguing, this is one thing I will not yield about.

E) Consent and sex education, as you mentioned is both important, very well. You still feel a bit stunted on the whole bdsm thing so I'm hoping you go on to educate yourself more before answering for it on public forums. It's a highly multifaceted set of activities with respect and love being at the centre of it. You said that "most" people reading Sadistic Beauty are educated on the ins and outs of bdsm and don't need to be policed yet you yourself show a lack of respect and awareness when you claim that the community practices "sadistic" acts like sexism, misandry, rape, abuse, assault, unwanted humiliation, suicidal imagery, abetment to suicide and physical/mental coercion. There is a limit to their practices when used in consented play and without consent and aftercare, it isn't sadism. pure and simple. psst, not giving aftercare also amounts to rape, just fun facts brought to you by the bdsm community. Safe to say that Minho never consented, never recieved aftercare and also never knew what was happening to him because he wasn't educated about bdsm, mc was but she always sprung those acts up on him like punishments, which they practically were since all she did was try to torment him. Plus why did she perform bdsm, an aftercare heavy activity, on him with no intentions of providing aftercare? Lastly, you proved your lack of awareness when you supported Minho's destruction because he's framed as the "antagonist" when he's clearly not and even if he is, he is a victim of (wrongly justified) assault at the end of the day. By wrongly justified, I mean that his rapists were never punished not shown to be wrong in their treatment of Byun Minho, this is an actual nightmare of rape victims in the real world, not seeing your assaulter suffer consequences. Your lack of empathy proved to me that you're not entirely aware. Not at all. This manhua redeemed a woman from her ex by getting her to repeatedly rape him and then passing him off to the hands of a psychopathic rapist and somehow you're trying to convince me that was okayish to some extent. smh

F) The author had every way to check into the "facts" since she wrote the rest from inspiration as well so why not start with the Wikipedia basics of bdsm before stomping into the, very precarious, territories of "femdom" and "graphic bdsm". You can't mix primary colours to make more if you can't even differentiate between the three. Also there's no "if". The community was been misrepresented the moment author decided to forego the trigger warning in all her rape/suicide scenes which I'm sure many read as bdsm but sadly they're not. sb joins the scum ranks of 365 days, 50 shades of gray when it comes to bdsm representation. Don't support the author where she was clearly wrong or don't claim it so openly if you don't want backlash.

Now talking about your "beef", it's a fictional story. How strongly I feel about Minho and how strongly you feel about mc is the purpose of this manhua but it still doesn't change a couple of things on ground level. Author is free to write about and torture whoever she wants in her work but her hatred for a character is not going to be matched with that of other readers since clearly most people were expecting a better story for Minho. Fun fact, readers enter a contract with the author when they start a written work, knowing that the author has fully informed them about what they're going to get from this work. Similarly, readers did not sign up for the rape and abuse and the author broke that contract by not informing us beforehand. In no universe, is rape and abuse "normal" in a romance smut and when it is then a fucking trigger warning is to be provided if the author cares about how such depictions may affect their various readers. At no point was this a "rape fantasy" "dark" "thriller" nor did I see any "Depiction of rape please practice viewer discretion" or "Depiction of suicidal imagery please practice viewer discretion". Let's be clear, without a trigger warning, author basically implies that is a non-problematic part of her work and doesn't need special attention. That it's even normal as you said. And haha, scroll down and see how the "this is completely normal, people won't mind when I show them this crap turned out". This is not bdsm, or a practical joke about Minho's suffering. I will not stand for the understatement of suicidal imagery because it affects me very adversely. I would have avoided it in a heartbeat if only I had gotten a warning.

You're very wrong about the "most people in bdsm wouldn't". This isn't just about bdsm. This is every reader who picks up something from the manhua and recreates, even if in a small way, it in real life without knowing any better because the author did not take the incentive to differentiate between places where bdsm was shown as correct and where it wasn't. And wth? enough have common sense? when was that the fucking issue. The issue was not to be able to tell if it's bad but for the author to not force rape, assault and suicide down people's throat without warning. Of course people would protest if they recieved such a stupid plot. And it is minor's problem? what? that the author cannot hold accountability for the impact of her work. Reviews, movie ratings, tags and triggers exist for people of all ages. If people grew into sensible adults just as they turned 18 then there'd be no rapists or criminals above the age of 18. People wrongly learn at every stage, therefore policing is important and author just added to the problem by normalising this bullshit. Keep in mind even "hentai" and "porn" have to be rated even though those aren't supposed to be treated with a moral compass and are only for fap but author released this work with a legible plot and backstories and progressions while standing for equal treatment, woman empowerment, female sexuality and what not and then set all of that on fire by justifying the one thing plagues women more than anyone else:- rape.

Lastly, as you said, fiction is fiction and I agree. But toxic elements are still toxic elements and as long as the author doesn't identify them, even if they were intentionally written/committed against her personally most hated character, I will hold it against her, even if you don't. Compared to you, her work impacted me very differently and in a way that cannot be excused no matter how I look at it.

How do I end this... I was deeply upset about how you responded and the things you brought up. I'm quite frankly traumatised.

"To me, all the characters, except Wookyung, acted as they should, minus the assault, because there is usually a limit to how much people can take before they finally look at someone and go 'why the fuck am I still friends with this person if all they do is take and not give?'. Friends and their support are a privilege, not something you're entitled to have: a fact Minho ignored for literal YEARS and then wondered why no one was there to support or give him help when he needed it."
Like about who we are talking about because I'm lost o.o

Plus tbh ater the rape and assault and trauma Doona caused she literally owned him the bare minimum of kindness but instead she gave a homeless person a roof above the head in exchange for prelonged sexual assaults and other forms of abuse.
It's always so funny how everyone can write the whole essay but how bad and evil Minho is but all you can say about Doona is yeah yeah she raped him, anyway plus adding excuses: but he clings to her, he came to her (rather victim blaming don't you think)... Such mentality is problematic itself and additionally shows the very next problem of the story: how the abuse Doona's faces was well addressed and recognized me awhile Minho was never recognized as a victim which is one big RED FLAG.

And how the author had no way to inform herself about the bare minimum and basic knowledge about BDSM community....

As always great post Hasty

Oh my god EXACTLY! mc had rape scenes with EVERYBODY (since no consent was involved) and worse, till the final chapter, she gets around to giving aftercare. Take it from a person who knows the bdsm community well, no consent+no aftercare=rape≠bdsm and author fucking needs to do better if she's going to commercialise a story based off a respected, chiefly healthy community like bdsm.

Never*** gets around to giving aftercare

Tbh I can't even grasp my head around the idea that in XXI century author couldn't do the very elementary and basic research for their BDSM story... It's such a lame and unbelievable excuse.

Attacking my phrasing? Ok, I see how you are.
Keep on being a good social justice warrior and defending your bubble.
I found your information insightful and will take it as a lesson for further stories.
I'm deeply sorry my opinions have traumatised you so much, however my opinion on this story will not change. I am more aware of how..extreme it is, thanks to you and I have greatly enjoyed our conversation.
I wish you luck in the world of yaoi my friend!(⌒▽⌒)

Well, I'm reading what your wrote, I don't know you personally so it would be ridiculous for me to assume your "intention" behind it so the best I tried to do was stick to what was before me. Though we remain in our respective corners, thankyou for apologising for your opinions/phrasing and I'm sorry if you felt attacked by mine. It's not a bubble, however, that I'm defending. What is wrong is wrong. I wouldn't have spoken against you had you stated your opinion as a personal one, instead you were belittling another person's opinion on how they cared about the rape shown in the manhua by saying that it doesn't matter because it's fictional so I had to intervene. Every opinion matters, especially one that is valid. Justification of rape is wrong and will continue to be wrong in every "yaoi" that has it and yes, I will keep complaining about it while enjoying the ones that don't have those toxic elements or address them properly.

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