Yeah it's so odd to me that ppl can't see the bottom as a dominant. What about dominant women that like being penetrated? This idea that the one being penetrated has to also be submissive is just an extention kf gender rolls. The submisive woman and the domanant man.
Exactly
They also usually do that in bdsm related stories. Either straight or gay, the submissive one is always the one being penetraded, you can be submissive and be the one fucking, you can be dominant and be the one receiving it.
right??!! idk but it feels incredibly mysoginistic to me
to me it dosn't matter if he is the uke or Seme, they mostly the same has the Shoujo trope stories only the girl have a dick now ╮(￣▽￣)╭
The one being penetrated isn't filling the roll of the girl. The character is a guy him being penetrated doesn't change him being a guy.
Seeing the guy as filling the roll of the girl is enforcing this idea that ppl that are penetrated are women when there are women that penetrate men. That doesn't make the woman a man nor the man a woman.
in this story it doesn't matter if it is a guy or girl, in the end, it clear who has ALL the power in this relationship and who just following the other person's will. there is zero balance just like in Shoujo. just cause the "girl" that acts like a dog with zero power has a dick now or can "penetrated" in bed does not make it better or right in any way or fun for that matter. it just the same old disgusting trope - One has all the power while the other just be obedient no matter how bad and fuck up he got treated.
and by the way, it has nothing to do with what role you have in bed and who penetrates who, the fact you even stack on this stupid stuff show you miss the point. since it has nothing to do with bed.
Sorry, meant to upvote!
We weren't talking about power imbalances. We were talking about the comments that were saying that the seme should be the uke because of his demeanor. That is why I was talking about who penetrates who. In reality it doesn't matter who does it or even if it happens at all, but ppl tend to see the submissive or less powerfull one as the one who should be the bottom in bed.
There can be a whole other conversation about power imbalances which also are a an issue. But this, at least how I understand it is just ppl being misogynistic because they think the rolls should be reversed.
you know why people still stack on those uke= submissive? it cause of those bad tropes that this story is supported by the way, but trying to hide it while making the"uke" the aggressive "guy" part of the story. people feel it is weird cause they got so used to the uke been the girl part that it confuses them to see anything else, despite it isn't that different, it the same old bs only the "uke" this time is the one using his dick and the Seme being the one who gets the dick. like really there is no difference ╮(￣▽￣)╭
people are not been "misogynistic" it is more of them just being brainwash of years and years of reading bad trope of yaoi and Shoujo.
I wanted to add that the reason that ppl see the more submissive one as the one who should be the bottom in bed is because of the idea that women are inherently not dominant and that idea bleeds through to queer relationships. People can't understand that a dominant person can be a bottom. Also having an inherently dominant and submissive person in a relationship doesnt mean there is going to be a power imbalance.
I don't think so, it is bleed to the culture of yaoi not "queer relationships", the yaoi from japan and their bs trope or not in any way show real queer relationships or what people think of it. it just shows bad trope most of the time to enjoy.
and this is not been "dominant", rape does not make you dominant or strong or better. it just makes you an asshole prick.
this story does not show "dominant", even if it thinks it does, it only repeat the same old trope we all know only give it the opposite rules in bed. that all it is, in most yaoi the Seme is an asshole and abusive - just like the uke in this story. you totally wrong if you think been "dominant" = being an abusive asshole all the time. cause it's not!
Its not bl and shojou brainwashing its society as a whole. Bl and shojou reflect the ideas ppl already have its not the other way around.
Even ppl that don't read bl/ shojou think smaller, "weaker" ppl should be the bottom. You can find this with straight and queer ppl and it is misogynistic. The reason I say that is because there is this idea that women are supposed to follow the man. That is placed on queer couples. Where if there is one that is more submissive they are seen as more feminine and thus should definitely be the bottom.
Honestly I think we are talking about different things. I don't think bl is a good representation of gay men at all. Just like I wouldn't consider shojou a good representation of st8 relationships.
I do think that bl does show what ppl think the rolls in a relationship should be based on the characters body type / personality and I don't agree with it. Though I have been seeing it slowly change over the years.
When I say dominant I just mean the one that usually makes the decisions in the relationship, not the whole asshole thing.
You also see ppl comment things like omg I can't believe the small/ feminine looking one is the seme! Because they expect the more feminine one to always be the bottom because of society.
I'm not saying that bl / shojou don't contribute to this way of thinking, but it isn't the reason for it.
♡
I disagree. what you read is can fully brainwash people to think "this is okay", "rape is fine" etc.. like people try so hard to say killing stalking is a romance while it clearly is NOT romance! the author even had to clear it up that it is not romance but people still think to this day and it was market has "romance BL" and ever since then we see more and more people liking abusive men much more than they had before reading KS.
I agree either BL or Shojou is not a good representation, but it still influences people to think and get used to sorting thing if you read it for long long time.
"expect the more feminine one to always be the bottom" - they expect that cause that how it shows in almost all media and society, not just BL, they used to this formula. not matter what movie you watch, most women are consider weak = considered bottom.
that's the thing, people are looking for things they know and familiar with all the time, that all it is. it does not make you bad for wanting it or misogynistic, there is a big difference between being a real misogynistic and wanting to read something you familiar with.
you can think what you want, but this story does not change the trope or change how people still think uke=weak. and it didn't mean to change it from the first place, the opposite it supports the trope in another horrible way. so can you really say the people that read this are the problem if the story supports this trope?
that's why we need stories not on one submissive with zero power and one abusive, aggressive with all the power to decide things. we need both of them to not be in any role and have the ability to decide and change the relationship, to have dynamics to push and pall when they want. and there are very small stories like this, but very few. and people LOVE those stories from what I seen!
I think we are talking past each other. I said its not bl or shojou brainwashing ppl because its society as a whole even you agreed with what I said.
"expect the more feminine one to always be the bottom" - they expect that cause that how it shows in almost all media and society, not just BL, they used to this formula. not matter what movie you watch, most women are consider weak = considered bottom. "
Bl and shojou contribute to these tropes but they aren't the cause of them.
I think ks was pretty clear in showing this was an abused in pain person that had an unhealthy relationship with someone who turns out to be a serial killer with mommy issues. The ppl thinking killing stalking was a love story were probably children that shouldn't have been reading it in the first place because they are not old enough understand what abuse looks like or ppl that have not had good examples of healthy relationships in their life.
I don't think that ppl that think the weaker one should be the bottom are bad ppl, but I do think it's misogynistic. Being misogynistic doesn't mean you are a bad it just means you perpetuate sexist ideas.
I didn't say this story changes any sort of stereotypes. What I was commenting on was this idea that ppl have that the weaker, more submissive one, should be the bottom and how that is an extention of society as a whole. I am not saying the ones that comment this are the problem, but it's good to point out the issues with that way of thinking.
Having more stories with healthy relationships is great. There are now a lot more stories with healthy relationships as opposed to before. There is still that rape makes ppl love each other trope, but it's not as prevalent as before so i habe hope for the future.
Y'all think the submissive ones should be on bottom. This really annoys me, of course everyone has their own opinions but still annoying af. Maybe that's because you're used to see the roles like that...