XD don't want to break it to you but author herself focuses a big part of story on sex between these two guys. Such scenes are definitely not there for story, plot purpose.
Of course because in many stories, sex is a big part of the relationship. But overly focusing on that aspect when there is a plot is kinda disturbing.
I don't know why are you so passive aggressive.
But the truth is fiction is fiction and reality is reality and you HAVE TO learn to distinguish these two.
Many people, especially the adult ones don't fetishize REAL GAY PEOPLE but they enjoy BL stories, FANTASY and sexual part of it. The same as many people enjoy rape in fiction but they don't enjoy it or support it irl.
I read BL works and never, never in my life I've thought about real gay man and his sexual activities. Even better I had few gay male friends and two of them talked non stop about their sexual activities, although they didnt even ask if I want to hear about it, they've loved to brag about it although they were crossing my boundaries and made me uncomfortable af because I'm NOT interested in others' people sexual activities. But one day I had conversations with one and the other man and kindly explained I don't want to hear even one more word about it. I've never talked about my love life myself, all I did was express my support for them being gay...but that was all of that.
Coming back from the anecdote:
Many people don't enjoy gay fiction because characters are gay but just because they are TWO GUYS, MEN. And straight women are attracted to men. Unfortunately many straight smut is focused on FEMALE partner which many hetero women find unappealing obviously.
And at the end of a day people literally fetishize everything: the body features, nationality etc etc.
But jfc shaming someone and guilt tripping because they got turned on while reading smut? Because they have seen two, appealing men? I think you are overanalyzing things. The problem definitely exist out there but preaching about it in 2D drawings, fiction smut is absurd.
So in reality they are objectified because they are men in many cases. Hot, appealing guys. And above that drawings.
But with the way of thinking, women who were discriminated for centuries and still are .... are objectified in porn and not only in porn. Going by your logic smut, even the 2D, not talking even about real porn should be banned because at the end of a day smut, porn is fetishizing and objectifying in general.
I don't mean to be passive agressive tbh. English is not my native language so maybe I sound harsh haha sorry about that
I'm more than happy that many people don't fetishize gay men but there are still a lot who do. Many people in the comment section are quite young. Moreover, I know the difference between fiction and reality (for example I'm okay with rape in fiction) but I think fiction can influence reality. Especially on the perception people have of the real world.
People fetishizing everything is not an excuse to me. Fetishizing a body part is okay but fetishizing a sexuality has an impact on real people.
I am not shaming people because they got tuned on by reading sexual scenes. It's really fine for straight people to read BL or to feel turned on I don't have any problem with that. I just find that people overly focus on it. I don't understand why people are assigning them sexual positions when the story just began. To me, people focusing on the sexual aspect of gay relationship tend to fetishize gay men but I understand if you think I'm jumping to conclusions
I'm not sure I've understood your point. Since women were objectified for centuries, they can objectify others? Also, my logic doesn't require abolition of porn. I just think people shouldn't use another sexuality to get off. If there is a problem with straight porn, then straight porn has to change to meet straight women's desire.
Sorry but you have no prove that people who enjoy BL fetishize real gay men. It's your assumption.
Same like there are no scientific articles showing connection between enjoying rape in fiction and committing it irl.
Why fetishizing a body part is ok?
But you understand that in straight smut there is one partner woman or man that straight person won't enjoy? It's not exactly about orientation but about their GENDER for many most readers.
And author called Matthew "seme" herself so you know.
No. My point is that porn always OBJECTIFY, in your logic we should ban porn, smut because in the end it fetishize or objectify some gender or fetishize sexual orientation, features, nationality etc.
My proof could be the "forum section" of Mangago when you can see every month young girls genuinely explaining people that they're shipping their male friends together and thinking their teachers are gay. Many people reading BL ship celebrities together. It's hard to bring proofs because fetishizing someone is something difficult to quantify and also because I don't think it's a popular subject for research papers haha
"Why fetishizing a body part is ok?" because a body part is not a real person. Fetishizing a sexuality means reducing a person to a sexual fantasy.
Why? I mean I am far from being a specialist but from what I get women watch straight porn and enjoy it. Of course, men and women don't enjoy the same straight porn but is that a problem? You said that women enjoy BL because it focus on male characters when straight porn focus on female character. I'm not sure if it that's simple but even so, if they find straight porn they like it's fine.
I think you can't really fetishize your own sexuality so we can start here. For your other points, it's harder to say because sexual orientation is sexual by definition and I'm not sure if my logic can be extended to concepts like gender or nationality. I'm not sure if I'm very clear sorry haha I just feel like there are other dimensions when it comes to gender or nationality.
Tbh I've seen few people talking about shipping their friends and they were REALLY young. BL stories are directed towards ADULTS, 18+, on most original sources you have to prove your age by ID etc. So your example is anecdotic one which you understand from scientific pov doesn't have much of importance.
So you don't consider problematic if someone degradate women or men to their features and fetishize them because of big breasts, skin colour, shape of eyes etc?
But once again many women like BL smut because it's about men. Like you don't see a connection between men enjoying lesbian smut and women gay one? The answer is really obvious: because they don't have to watch the second party they aren't attracted to. And with straight smut the problem is even bigger for women because it very,very often focused mostly on female participant.
The porn can be more questionable, although as I said porn in in general objectifying and fetishizing in it's nature but I seriously don't see a problem with 2D drawings.
Since it's difficult to quantify and there isn't any research on that issue yet, I am not sure if you can dismiss my point because of the lack of numbers. Like there isn't any problem until we look for it. But maybe you can prove that straight people consuming gay porn doesn't impact negatively their representation of gay people.
This website is not an exception for age restriction. Young people can easily access porn on the Internet. I am also wondering what kind of adults will these people be? Are they going to keep their misconceptions? Growing up doesn't mean you're going to be educated enough to work on your biases.
Tbh I was thinking of universal body parts if that makes sense. Like foots, hands etc. Breasts are linked to gender and skin color is linked to race. Like I said, I'm not sure if you can generalize my point to broader issues like gender and nationality.
Right I understood that. It means women just have to find straight smut focusing on men. I don't think straight people are not interested in their own gender while watching porn. Like the point is to imagine yourself at the place of the actor acting your gender, right? So, they just have to find straight porn focused on male characters.
Wait what is the difference between 2D smut and 3D porn? Both are fictional and not depicting reality
Like you are the one stating how liking and getting turned on by 2D characters impact gay men and many people enjoying BL fetishize real gay men. You are the one who should provide some research not the other way around?
But they are YOUNG. Why should we judge the whole group because of some young, immature, not developed yet kids? Young people are still changing and learning. And BL is directed to adults, this site is literally illegal one and they aren't supposed to read such things.
Some do and some don't enjoy watching the same gender being sexualised when you are straight? Rather obvious. Some get jealous? Some can't project themselves on the actress? Some get turned off? So smut having only men of course can be much more comfortable option for many or at least some women. My friend who was victim of sexual abuse for example prefers gay porn because straight porn and seeing the actress with man/men is kind of triggering for hem at times (not always but it happens).
Tbh in my eyes there is not a big difference because it's still fiction but 2D are literally drawings so it's the most safe option with 2D characters who don't even exist.
Wow just remembered that. Well not sure if you’re still here since Mangago was down but anyways:
Yeah but since I don't have any I genuinely wondered if you could prove your point otherwise we're stuck haha. And from my pov, we just have two different opinions, why should I be the only one to prove mine just because I expressed myself first?
I'm not judging the whole group. Saying "not all readers..." is... this is not my point. Same with the fact that kids shouldn't read porn. BL is directed to adults but at the end of the day, kids still read it. Problematic behaviors are here and I think we should address it. Being young isn't an excuse to be offensive toward a community and again, maybe these young people will keep their misconceptions growing up. I agree that restricting access to porn will help but I'm not sure if it would solve the problem.
The case of trauma is different. I’m kinda interested in women’s consumption of porn. From my pov again with a sample that’s not representative, the huge majority of women enjoys straight porn. I’m more on women who consume gay porn because of preferences. Tbh I’m a bit lost in our discussion I’ll try re-reading it for next time if you’re still here because I forgot where we are going but I enjoy talking about this :)
Yeah characters in 2D porn don’t exist but people in 3D porn are actors, they’re playing a character that doesn’t exist either. It’s about depicting a sexuality in both cases.
Referring to characters by their sex position is offensive. The story just started and half of the comments are asking who's top and who's bottom, showing that most people are more interested in the sexual aspect of their relation than in their dynamic. Considering that most of the readers are not mlm, it is clearly problematic. Many mlm people expressed themself as being uncomfortable with that kind of behavior. So, let's stop talking about whose dick is the biggest and let's discuss about their charisma, the atmosphere, the tension and everything